Nutrition Experts Podcast

A podcast about nutrition experts and all they do for the world!

You are here: Home

Nutrition Experts Podcast Episode 24 Men’s Nutrition Goals and Hospital Food By David Egerdahl

by Leave a Comment

David Egerdahl is a Registered Dietitian Nutritionist, Patient Services Manager and Nutrition Coach in Colorado Springs, CO.  His main passion is men’s diet and nutrition.  David is the Dietitian you see when you want to make gains in your, health, fitness, and life.  You can find David at nutritiongains.com where he offers a blog and nutrition coaching for everything from fat loss, muscle building, and better diet in general, to improving diet at work, eating for better mood, and men’s health.  He also loves speaking to large groups about a variety of nutrition topics to groups, on stage or on TV.  David believes good nutrition in not just important for improving and maintaining your health but also other aspects of your life from business/career, to finances, to family.  He also enjoys powerlifting, basketball, and Rick and Morty.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:27] Hi there! It’s Mathea. Welcome back to the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast featuring nutrition experts who are leading the way using food starts today right now with our next guest. It’s great to have Dave Egerdahl on the show today. Dave welcome Nutrition Experts. I’m excited to have you on the show and share your expertise with my tribe.

David Egerdahl: [00:00:49] No problem Mathea. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:52] So, Dave we’re going to talk today about a few different topics but I’d like to start with letting you tell my listeners a little more about you and what you do.

David Egerdahl: [00:01:00] So, right now I’ll wear a few different hats. I’m a Patient Services Manager in a hospital in Colorado Springs. Basically what that entails is managing not only the room service aspect but the nutrition aspect that goes a long list with dealing with all those different diets and menus and what not. I also do a lot of diet, nutrition, public relations stuff for the hospital like last week I was doing live television. Next week I’ll be doing a heart healthy event where I’m doing a cooking demonstration on how to cook Quinoa you know things like that. And then since I just can’t stay away from nutrition counseling and coaching, I do do some coaching on the side as a kind of I guess a side hustle you could say.

Mathea Ford: [00:01:51] Where do you go to school?

David Egerdahl: [00:01:53] University of North Dakota.

Mathea Ford: [00:01:55] Okay. So, you didn’t stray too far from home?

David Egerdahl: [00:02:00] Right!

Mathea Ford: [00:02:00] So, I think it’s interesting to talk about dietitians working in Patient Services. I did that almost my entire career and I love food service. So, I would love you to talk a little bit about what it’s like to manage a room service kitchen and what kind of room service like in a hospital? Because that’s maybe a new concept for people or maybe people have heard of it and they don’t understand how it works.

David Egerdahl: [00:02:27] Sure. It is you know I think in the past the expectation for hospital food has been you know I get my Salisbury Steak and dry mashed potatoes and some jello and that’s my meal. But yeah it’s changed a lot over the years where it’s a room service style the same sort of style you would see in a hotel where patients are calling down placing their order. And we have unique sophisticated systems to track allergies, track diet needs etc. and still allow them to get a pretty decent meal in the hospital while they’re getting better. It’s a whole complicated system with not just the you know the order taking but then you know the production of it and the delivery of it. There’s all kind of it’s new technology to help track delivery times and all these sort of things. So, it’s pretty cool, unique, complicated all rolled into one but it’s it’s a fun challenge to have.

Mathea Ford: [00:03:28] So, if I’m a patient in your hospitals do I have to pay extra to get room service versus just a regular tray?

David Egerdahl: [00:03:34] Absolutely not! No. No. And I’m sure the way it gets billed is different in every hospital but I know for us it’s just part of the stay. So, no, no it’s not extra. That’s that’s the price of admission is you get that perk.

Mathea Ford: [00:03:51] So, do patients have something in their room based on their diet? What they can eat? Or how do they know what they can order?

David Egerdahl: [00:03:59] In most places, in our place I’ll use my place an example. So, we have our regular menu and then so that takes care about 60 percent of the patients because that’s what we find are our regular menu in our hospital. And then we have diabetics which makes up the next bulk. And the way we communicate that to them is through the nursing staff to doctors they’re letting them know we’re pretty tight in your diet or such and such reason. Whatever that [00:04:24] AP [0.3] and sometimes is new to them which is it’s a challenge in itself. And then we have the carb counts and the menu so that that takes care and maybe another 20 percent and then another about 15 percent maybe on a heart healthy. So, we use ways to indicate whether a meal item or a menu item rather is heart healthy was little emblem next to it that’s heart healthy and that takes care about 95 percent of the diets the rest of them get a little complicated. So, we create special menus distribute those when we need to.

David Egerdahl: [00:04:58] And then along with that, the diet operators are trained in diets by a dietitian so they can help them along the way and Health Touch which is our just our system that we use to help with meal ordering gives all that information of what sodium, fat, carbohydrate whatever nutrient you want to be tracking for that patient is in there.

Mathea Ford: [00:05:20] They have a menu in their room and they call down. It seems to me like that would be more expensive for food service. So, is your hospital more of like a higher end hospital or is it more expensive to have room service than regular like trays that people just get automatically?

David Egerdahl: [00:05:40] Not necessarily. Once you have the infrastructure there it’s not much more expensive. I hope I’m not giving away any secrets but the industry standard for a tray cost is about a dollar and 80 cents. And we are below that. So, we’re offering these these menus and the reason why we’re able to do because we’re a relatively large hospital and so we can use kind of economies of scale to make food costs low, labor costs low and then the cost of operating overhead that gets eaten up just by the sheer volume that we do.

Mathea Ford: [00:06:16] I guess what I’m thinking is somebody on a clear liquid diet. Do they get to call then order room service?

David Egerdahl: [00:06:23] Yes. Yeah! We do that right. We have a whole list of clear liquids that are you know some your typical clear liquids like [00:06:31] Brock [0.4] and jello and those sort of things but then we you know we offer Gatorade or you know certain things that are you know not the typical liquid. And we try really hard to work with the docs and nurses on protocols where they don’t have to be on clear liquids all that long. Because the research is finding that you know people are doing pretty fine if they are given a kind of a la carte. You know allow them to order some regular meal items as long as they’re not too hard on the stomach or whatever unless it’s like a G.I. surgery then there’s definitely some special considerations there.

Mathea Ford: [00:07:10] You know I’m thinking I have a regular tray and it’s got all the food on it. Whether you wanted it or not it’s got you know a milk or coffee or tea, it’s got a dessert, it’s got the entrees, it’s got vegetable sides and when people called down I’m guessing they’re just ordering whatever they’re in the mood for. So, if all they want is a hamburger and some fries or whatever. They probably eat that more so than… You find that they eat better and that they you know have eat a better portion of their trays, less food waste?

David Egerdahl: [00:07:42] I don’t know that we really track that necessarily. So, the big thing that drives why a hospital would want a room service style dining is the personalization that it allows the patient. So, most hospitals measure patient satisfaction through a third party survey and there is a financial incentive for hospitals to have a high patient satisfaction score. And also it’s just good for the hospital to be rated high on that regard. So, room service style dining drives that when a hospital has room service style dining. Their patient satisfaction scores improved immensely compared to like the older you know “Here’s what’s for lunch of thing. Take it or leave it. Patients nowadays like to have a little bit more control what’s going on in hospital stay and food service and nutrition is a big part of that.

Mathea Ford: [00:08:40] Once you’re in a hospital there’s very little that you have control over and really being able to make some choices you know you don’t know when you’re going to get your surgery or you don’t know when people are going to come near into your room and talk to you or how long you’re going to be there. But having that choice would seem to be an excellent thing. So, is it I guess I didn’t get you to answer the question is it pretty popular in hospitals or is it still some that’s growing?

David Egerdahl: [00:09:08] It’s becoming the standard. It’s becoming something that most hospitals do. The reason why you wouldn’t maybe do that sort of style dining is because if you’re a 20 bed hospital and you know there’s just not enough folks to justify doing that sort of thing. You know it might not be for you but if you’re you know 150, 200, 300 and up bed hospital it’s very… It’s not only very cost effective, it’s very good on your you know the satisfaction of the patient or the quality of their stay.

Mathea Ford: [00:09:47] Something else you mentioned that you do at your hospital is like media relations, nutrition. So, how does that work how do you get those opportunities?

David Egerdahl: [00:09:56] Relationships. So, one of the things I love to do is speak in front of groups. I love to do that. I love to you know not just you know as a patient services manager, training, staffer or running a meeting but I love to talk to groups about various nutrition topics like I do a monthly once you learn from the hospital. The last one we did was you know healthy fats because you know pretty basic topic that the layperson doesn’t have a lot of information about. I Just love getting in front of people helping them in that way providing any guided or information I can give them and do it in a way that they can receive and is meaningful to them is really important. Just having that like I don’t do that necessarily because I’m going to get anything back. I just enjoy doing it and I find that you know what the more I do stuff like that the more people will notice and say “oh they might be good for this or they might be good for that.” So I get all these opportunities and I’m not shy either so I’ll stand in front of a camera. I’ll get on a radio station, I’ll do a podcast. Not a lot of dietitians I find have that outgoing personality. Least like the ones I’ve worked with in the hospital. They’re kind of a shy away from that but I’ve always enjoyed it. In my past I did a diabetic self-management. And the part of that was a monthly course that would talk to groups of people so I just sharpen my skills.

Mathea Ford: [00:11:26] I get you because I do love talking about nutrition and I do it all the time because I have this podcast. But I just love talking and hearing that interaction and being able to see what questions people have. Being able to explain things maybe more clearly than the quick snippet that they saw on a TV show or on the morning news or whatever. So, do you find you get asked a lot of kind of questions about what’s in the news and stuff when you’re on your presentations?

David Egerdahl: [00:11:58] You know some of the common stuff. You know what’s popular now so like Vegan Diets. I get asked a lot about that. I get asked a lot about keto. I get asked a lot. You name the sad I get asked about it. So, yeah you gotta be prepared for that. And then like if anything likes comes out of the news, people will ask my opinion of it or even if they’re just doing something kind of you know that I wasn’t even aware of. Like one time I was walking through the halls of a hospital and the media relations person said they’re doing a thing on strokes and “So, what’s your opinion on that?” I jokingly said “I’m against them. If you can not have those shows will be good.”.

Mathea Ford: [00:12:42] Yeah! You could avoid that.

David Egerdahl: [00:12:42] The more you put yourself out there I feel like the more that comes back to you. It’s like it’s not anything I’m necessarily like advertising that I do or promoting that I do but you know just being willing to do it creates those opportunities if you like.

Mathea Ford: [00:12:56] Yes! That’s a good tip for people that are listening that may want to do more of that is just to start seeing where you can do some small things maybe.

David Egerdahl: [00:13:06] And definitely starting out, I mean it’s you know some people like you know what they want to be compensated for their time. I think really does it start out that way. Usually it starts out you’re kind of volunteering or you’re doing it out of sheer enjoyment. And then it builds into that once you know you started building a fan base and a demand in all this stuff. So…

Mathea Ford: [00:13:26] From your perspective, one of the things that you like to talk about on your blog and we’ve talked about is how men and women’s nutrition is different. So, can you talk a little bit about that? About how maybe people could see that it’s different because I think it’s always interesting to get different points of view.

David Egerdahl: [00:13:49] The field is still pretty well dominated by women but it is just something I had a passion for. So, it’s what I decided I wanted to do. One of my first roles was a nutrition counselor. You know I would see diabetic patients, bariatric patients, renal patient here there and then one off in between. “Oh! I want to lose weight or I want to lower my cholesterol or stuff like that. So, I started to notice that whenever I would get a guy consult, it would usually be a situation where his wife was coming along and I feel like the guy always had kind of a standoffish like “Okay, it’s going to be me and the Mrs against him and the Mrs. against mee and I got you know I got to go through this kind of thing.” You know I started to notice that and I would “Why is that happening?” So I kind of did some research and you know typically guys it is changing a little bit. The guys you know when they’re trying to get healthy they don’t really seek diet as a means to do that, they might do more exercise or something like that but I started to approach relate to guys on a guy level. And you know I started to learn more about you know the differences in men’s nutrition and women’s nutrition. Basically, there’s no difference. All the nutrients that are essential for men are essential for women. There’s no difference there but where the differences come into play is you know a guy can get it all away with eating a little bit more food just because you know the differences in size so the calories are more. But also attitudes and preferences like men tend to be more meat eaters and that sort of thing. And you start to realize well maybe there’s a the reason for that. Maybe there’s for instance men produce much more testosterone than women and there’s a whole metabolism and nutrient need that goes around all of that. So you know what are those nutrient needs? And how can we provide those from there and then? And how can we let guys take control of their nutrition rather than kind of let the Mrs. handle that kind of thing? Once I started taking more reproach were like “Sir, I’m helping you. If you’re not interested in my help I understand but you need to take responsibility for your nutrition.” I got a better response from guys because I think part of that is I’m a guy as well but the other thing is like you know “I don’t have to eat which she eats” you know and you know that’s kind of the way it ends up going sometimes is whoever’s the cook in the family and traditionally it’s been the women. They kind of just put whatever and in front of the guy and he’s like “oh! This is what’s for dinner tonight now that I have to watch my blood sugar.” So, finding ways to meet guys’ food preference in a way that you know that’s not taken away their beer or whatever the thing is that they want to hold on to and men just tend to have different goals I think than women in health. Just you know working with people that I do have found that guys tend to have more they’re more concerned with you know how they perform, how they feel rather than like finding getting a weight loss resolved or what have you. Were women there that you know if the doctor tells of their blood sugar is high they want to correct that immediately on the spot. That’s a motivator for them. It’s not necessarily for guys and I know that’s surprising to hear. “If my blood sugar is high so what? What was that matter?” So now I’m get long winded here. But yeah that’s that’s kind of you know some of the basic differences I’ve noticed.

Mathea Ford: [00:17:24] I think it’s interesting because as a dietitian you know working for a long time I noticed a pattern to. I noticed that and I’m always happy when the spouse comes along because that way there’s not the friction of trying to change later and obviously it’s a generational thing a lot of times where the woman wife whatever does most of the cooking. But interesting to think about men’s weight loss calls differently are men’s nutrition health fitness goals whatever because when we talk to them it’s that switch that you’re talking about whereas finding out what they’re interested in changing. And as you said that I think about my husband because he’s gained a little weight and he constantly talks about how he doesn’t feel good and he wants to lose the weight. So, it is related to how he wants to feel. It’s not necessarily about the number on the scale. That’s a good thought for people to have when they’re talking to people just realize you know the perspective difference that’s an excellent point.

David Egerdahl: [00:18:34] Yeah! And that’s I would say that’s the main difference because when you really like boil it down and reduce it it’s you know we all need to eat healthy and that’s what the layers beyond that are just like well what is motivating this person to want to do that? Because people say “Oh I should do this or should do that.” Is that really what you want to do? You know when you really ask that question. Well, now, I’d really rather do this you know. So, it’s finding I guess you know what that motivator is and relating to it and finding solutions for.

Mathea Ford: [00:19:11] That just reminds me a little bit that I recently had a little bit of an epiphany thinking about how we think about goals as far as trying to get away from something vs. trying to go towards something. Because once you’re getting away from something then you kind of get a little more relaxed vs. if you’re trying to go towards something. For example at A1C number or something like that. You’re more apt to reach it because you’re going for that number instead of trying to avoid something. Can you talk a little bit about dietitians do nutrition counseling? Typically, I see a lot of nutrition coaching. Can you tell me a little bit about what you think is the difference between those two and how you approach it?

David Egerdahl: [00:19:57] From a practical standpoint from the nutritionist. There’s really no difference. You’re still doing an assessment. Still coming up with some sort of nutrition diagnosis and then following up and monitoring you know when I try to think of some good differences, I know that when I was in a counseling role I was seeing more diabetic more, bariatric, stuff that was covered by insurance. So, they were referred to by a physician to me and you know that’s that whole game coaching you really is more like you know “I got a goal and I knew I really need somebody’s help to get there” whether that be you know in terms of a nutritionist, whether that’s just eating healthy or weight loss or gaining muscle or whatever it is. I guess that would be the main difference.

Mathea Ford: [00:20:48] If someone is getting nutrition coaching you seem a little bit more like not necessarily having goals of medical or lab related stuff but more just personal weight or fitness or something like that? Is that what you’d say?

David Egerdahl: [00:21:04] I think that’s fair to say. I think that’s fair to say. I think especially in a hospital setting for example which I don’t know. I kind of think of it as nutrition counseling but some may not. That’s a captive audience. They may not necessarily want to see you but you know if you’re putting yourself out there as a coach and you’re saying you know I’m offering this service for you if you’d like you’re getting somebody who maybe a little more motivated. Maybe you know has a goal in mind where you know that counselor or that person that’s the doctors you know forcing them to see a nutritionist or whatever. They might have a goal. They may not even be ready for change just yet. So, you got to kind of you know if you can try to figure out how to get them from there.

Mathea Ford: [00:21:51] Yes. Since you deal a lot with the healthy diet in the hospital and then working with people doing different things. Can you talk a little bit to the audience about how a healthy diet is different from a weight loss diet? Because I think a lot of times people think “I’ve got to get on a diet to lose weight and then I could eat differently whenever I’m done losing weight” I guess. So can you talk a little bit about that?

David Egerdahl: [00:22:18] The thing I’ve noticed is that you know people are using healthy diet and weight loss diet synonyms and which they can be at times. But you start to see some of the stuff that people are you know doing to try to lose weight are not necessarily the healthiest things point to any fad. And you can just you couldn’t. You can see well that might not be sustainable long term. You might end up having some trouble with that in the future. I remember one time going on TV they asked me to talk about diet cleanses, these liquid cleanses. I think they fully expected me to say something different that I did say because I you know I pretty much put him down as these are not a healthy sustainable way to lose weight.

David Egerdahl: [00:23:06] And essentially the weight you’re losing during that week of clenses is water weight. So, if you’re using that as a means of weight loss you know I don’t think that’s the most effective or efficient means. And then you also look at the fitness industry and you see these very fit people like fitness competitors and bodybuilders and stuff like that and they you know it’s assumed that these people must be doing you know they must have the healthiest lifestyle, the healthiest diet and a lot of things they do are very healthy, a lot of things they do are very extreme and very taxing on the body and not always the best for oneself.

Mathea Ford: [00:23:41] Sometimes, I think everybody should consider that they should be on a healthy diet whether they’re trying to lose weight or not.

David Egerdahl: [00:23:48] Right. Anything any health behavior you do is going to you know whether it’s taking a medication or follow a diet protocol or do an exercise program. It’s going to have some side effects whether good or bad. We can point all the side effects medications but you know their side effects associated with certain diets. If you start to exercise program that you’re not acclimated towards you’re going to have some pretty serious side effects you’re going to be very sore. You’re going to feel stress. You’re going to feel like you don’t want to do this. And there’s probably a reason that your body’s not ready for it. So, when I see things like you know people wanting to do Keto or people wanted to do fasting or you know I encouraged them to anything. “Okay. You know I’m not against you trying that but I want you to consider you know is this something you’re going to be able to sustain? And if not what do you plan to do once you’re done with it?” Because we all know about the yo yo diet syndrome and that’s essentially not having a plan for once your diet fails. That’s basically you know these protocols you know you see a lot of research and there’s research really to back up anything as long as you have strong enough belief about it. And there’s research to disprove it but it’s just a matter of what are you doing why are you wanting to do that? And what’s your plan B? Because if you’ve ever done a low carb diet before and you try it for a week or two or a month and you decide “this is not for me” what’s your plan B? Because that’s pretty typical is that you know people try something like that go strong for a month and then it falls apart.

Mathea Ford: [00:25:34] Being in Colorado, we all know Colorado has recreational and medical marijuana. I would just be interested what you see people using medical marijuana for that seems to be pretty effective with relations to any sort of nutrition stuff. You got any ideas about that?

David Egerdahl: [00:25:53] Typically what I see people using like edibles or smoke marijuana for is either like for a while is doing oncology inpatient nutrition and you know that’s something that’s very popular. The folks who are going through that sort of treatment it’s just like another thing it’s just like curcumins and it’s just like another thing where people you know they’ve latched on to this you know the benefits of this one single thing. And they you know build products around it to try to you know sell it basically. I got to be honest I’m not too up to date on all the research of it because I think a healthy lifestyle doesn’t necessarily need to include marijuana even though I live in Colorado. I’m probably going to alienate a lot of people in Colorado but I don’t think it’s you know it’s a cure all. I’m sure there are some benefits to it because you know you know it’s being used but I don’t know that you know that’s something I can confidently tell people you should try this because I think it’ll help you with XYZ.

Mathea Ford: [00:27:04] Okay. So, one of the questions I always like to ask my guests is what is your favorite food?

David Egerdahl: [00:27:11] Pizza.

Mathea Ford: [00:27:13] Pizza. Any specific pizza?

David Egerdahl: [00:27:15] No! Just pepperoni pizza is my favorite food. I know that’s probably you know something you don’t expect a dietitian to say. But we’re human too. We eat what we like. We like pizza and chocolate and occasional alcoholic beverage. So, I will say that I’ve tried to make more of a traditional style pizza these days where it’s more of a thinner crust, more heavier on the on the fresh ingredients maybe like I’ve tried one recently with goat cheese rather than like a mozzarella because it’s a little bit lower in fat than some roast cheeses out there. So, it’s my vice. I won’t lie. I try to eat healthy 80 to 90 percent of the time but if there’s a pizza party going on I’m going to party for sure.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:06] It’s got all the food groups. Right?

David Egerdahl: [00:28:07] No! I hate that too. I hate when people say to justify. Just accept that it’s not healthy. And that’s okay. Okay? That’s all right. That it’s not healthy.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:19] All foods can fit.

David Egerdahl: [00:28:20] Yes. But I don’t like when you know. Well, Chocolate’s healthy right? Because if you got the dark chocolate. Yeah, you know. Yeah, dark chocolate is great but have you had actual real dark chocolate? Do you really like it? Because I would venture to guess that if you had a 100 percent cocoa that you’re not too into it.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:42] Yeah! That would be very bitter.

David Egerdahl: [00:28:43] But just just just be okay. Oh that’s another thing I like is people don’t put too much pressure on themselves to feel like that they should eat away or they have to eat away. And if they don’t that it’s some sort of they’ve committed some sort of sin. Just be ok with that. Just allow it. And part of taking care of yourself is allowing you know getting the nutrients you want or need rather but also allowing yourself to enjoy some of the things you do like. I mean don’t don’t make it a lifestyle obviously but I mean don’t don’t beat yourself up if you had some cheesecake you know because it’s fine. Don’t let that ruin you.

Mathea Ford: [00:29:26] Gotcha! I love that because if you can add a little bit of mindfulness and portion you know just getting enough to really satisfy that urge and then let it go. That’s a great way to still get those things you want.

David Egerdahl: [00:29:42] I like to use the term love. We should we should love ourselves and you know what kind of ways do we love ourselves. Well, what kind of ways do we love others. We cook for them. We keep them warm, we give them gifts. You should be doing those things for yourself too. You should be putting the stuff in you that is good for you and allowing yourself some of those things that are you know delicious but not so good for you and you should be allowing yourself to have breaks and things like that. You know the things that we do to love others we should be doing for ourselves too so that we can love others better.

Mathea Ford: [00:30:15] That’s excellent point. Dave, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. It was a pleasure to have you on the show. I know my listeners learned a lot about Room Service, menus, all the different stuff we talked about today. So if listeners want to connect with you what’s the best way to do that?

David Egerdahl: [00:30:32] On Facebook. Nutrition Gains with Dave Egerdahl. I’m on Twitter David E RDN. And then I have a website NutritionGains.com where people can find me.

Mathea Ford: [00:30:43] Okay. Well, guys this has been another great episode of the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast that is all about learning more so you can do more with nutrition in your life.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Android | Email | RSS

Nutrition Experts Podcast Episode 23 Award Winning School Lunches By Putting Kids First with Deborah Taylor

by Leave a Comment

Deborah Taylor, RDN/LD, SNS is a long time school nutrition professional. She has spent over 20 years working to bring healthy food to kids in public schools. She has won awards, been recognized nationally and recently was given the Distinguished Alumna Award from her Alma Mater.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:28] Hey there! It’s Mathea. Welcome back to Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast featuring nutrition experts who are leading the way using food starts today right now with our next guest. It’s great to have Deborah Taylor on the show today. Deborah, welcome to Nutrition Experts. I’m excited to have you on the show and share your expertise with my tribe.

Deborah Taylor: [00:00:48] Thank you! I love getting the chance of getting to be here. I am a registered dietitian and I’m Registered Dietitian/Nutritionist. It is a great field and I’ve gotten have a lot of fun in it.

Mathea Ford: [00:01:00] Yes! So, we’re going to talk today about school nutrition but I want you to start with telling my listeners a little more about yourself and what you do and I know you have a long career. So feel free to call it more about you.

Deborah Taylor: [00:01:16] Okay. Thank you. I went back to college as a grown up that my husband was in was drafted into the military back in the day. So, that tells you how old I am. And after him being in the service for three years then he said one day hey I think you should go to college with me. And it’s like “Whoa! We can’t afford that.” And he said “we’ve lived on so little money for so long I think we should try.” Best gift he ever gave me and obviously financially it was that great. It was a nice thing for the two of us too. So, we started at Oklahoma State University and yeah go pokes! And again we kind bleed orange around here. Excellent dietetic program that was called [00:02:04] Feds [0.2] Nutrition and Institution Administration. The hotel and restaurant… They had the Hotel and Restaurant Administration degree at the same place. So I got to learn. We all learn that as a dietitian. We learn that service management. And I got to have that kind of creativity that can that sometimes hotel folks, restaurant folks have that sometimes those of us that are trained more institutionally we lack. And for me that’s been a big help. I’ve fed kids. Different jobs I’ve had because we moved a lot was at the beginning. I’ve fed kids at Oklahoma State University but also at Texas Christian University down in Fort Worth. And I think that college and university feeding is a really fun place to do food service management if you know people haven’t thought about that. The deal was it didn’t have anything to do with nutrition and that also… Anyway, I ended up taking I’ve said I’ve done some things with long term care facilities and things but and I’ve been a research dietitian when were in Louisiana. That was fun for a little brief period. And my favorite job was working with family practice residents in [00:03:24] Port Barre. [0.4]

Deborah Taylor: [00:03:25] With that job then I worked out to work out of an office working with patients who were sometimes low standard readers. They were mainly poor and I got to use my Spanish which was fun. And then I also got to keep up with the real in-depth things because I was the nutrition resource person for the family practice residence. It’s a job like for me I could have done that my whole life and been very rewarded and fulfilled with my career path. But we moved again. So, though after a couple of places we ended up in the Oklahoma City area specifically in Shawnee at that I was working with Weick and enjoyed that and had been doing it for nearly a year. And I got a phone call asking me to apply at Chinese schools to be their food service director and I said “oh that sounds like fun” and in two or three years maybe when my youngest at that time was 4 years old and I knew what food service management careers were like. They’re all encompassing. They said “oh these jobs come open very often. The lady that’s retiring right now was there twelve years and the one before that was 18 years.” And I said “Oh! Well, I guess I can apply.” And so I applied and I was the one that was given the position. And I ended up being at Shawnee Schools then running their food service operations for 22 years. After 22 years then Oklahoma City Schools called and asked if I would apply there. They had decided to move back to self op from self operations from a food service management company. They then hired Kevin Ponce from Mid-Del school and Nate from Shawnee school. Nate is the director and I was the associate director and I did that for four years and then I just retired from school. So I don’t feel retired yet at all. And I will be looking to doing teaching and training things continuing that part of what I do with my life. So having to do with school. So, school nutrition is a very intense and different field that it is a great place for registered dietitian.

Mathea Ford: [00:06:00] I have you know I’m a food service dietitian too. I went to see huge food service school and food service on cooking. So, I know that while you’re at Shawnee you have special recognition with some of the Michelle Obama Initiative. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Deborah Taylor: [00:06:22] My program in about 2006 I believe was featured in Time Magazine as one of the ones who followed all the rules, did not take money from outside sources and did a better job than what we had to do nutrition wise. And then when Michelle Obama was writing her book American Grown then my Farm to School Program there at Shawnee was featured on a whole page of her book American Grown is one of the stories of one of the things that we did with farm to school and Shawnee schools. In 2014 my favorite award because it’s so not in school nutrition where I’m with people that know me and know they can actually grade and judge what I’m doing in my field. I was chosen by Oklahoma State University my college there as I got the Distinguished Alumni Award.

Deborah Taylor: [00:07:31] And that was a very big surprise to me and it was a nice verification that school meals are important. And that the work that I had in doing was important and was perceived as important by the people that provided that education for me in the first place. So, I was also District Director of the Year for the State of Oklahoma. And that then I was awarded that award also for the region which is a 6A Region. I was in the right place in the right time. And I look at other dietitians and go see it was a good thing to be doing. When you get out of this state like Oklahoma let’s say in Georgia. Georgia is a prime example of that wonderful things in school nutrition services. Every daddy is a director has to have a master’s degree or be a registered dietitian. So… But they also have school districts that are the entire county and not all these little bitty school districts like we have.

Mathea Ford: [00:08:40] You know you kind of sit there at the end. But I think it’s really important to acknowledge that you love what you’re doing. we all we all have friends about different things and you are passionate about school food service in school. And those kids get them try new things. I always say “thank goodness for the way they do. School Nutrition because my kids tried a variety of foods and now they come home and I have hand them on the plate or whatever and go eat it.

Deborah Taylor: [00:09:13] Yes.

Mathea Ford: [00:09:13] Instead of me having to throw all through that. They saw their friends eat it. They saw their peers eat it. They thought “Oh! I can try it.” But they did learn to like it.

Deborah Taylor: [00:09:24] I was too busy buying food, planning menus, hiring peopl, training people, making, running the big food service operation. And then the hidden part of school nutrition is all the governments. It’s a huge government program. So you have free in latest mail application and you have computer systems that you have to buy that you have to train your people on that keep kids in categories. You’ve got all of the big stuff going on. So, as I thought when I took the job. “Oh and that’ll be able to do nutrition education with these kids and go in the classroom” or you know I just had this idea that I’d be able to do actual nutrition education with kids. In 22 years, I had three days that I got into classrooms and about three days. I mean that’s like nothing right? It’s because the job is so huge. I did my level best with the actual foods that I was buying that I was providing for them then that’s how I feel like I got to provide nutrition education to all of the kids in Shawnee.

Mathea Ford: [00:10:44] So, I know you did some other wonderful things in Oklahoma City. So, specifically, you got some grants to provide a free meals. So, can talk a little bit about that?

Deborah Taylor: [00:10:57] A big huge part of the Federal Child Nutrition Program is that we provide meals at no charge to kids who don’t we have very much money. And so in order to do that most of your school districts out there the kids every year as part of the enrollment process are there is a application for free and reduced meals. And it’s a family application now. Several years ago as part of the Paperwork Reduction Act then the government folks started looking at all of these free and reduced meal applications that they have to be done every year from scratch starting over. It is a huge amount of paperwork. And then every single time a child walks in and gets a meal then we have to count that child. And what category they’re in. In order to claim reimbursement for those meals. So, there we had these huge paperwork and computer requirements and that’s what we’re audited on. Nobody ever audited me on how good that feed was. How much the kids were eating? How they set the ball. The different things that I did were. Well, that is part of the auditing process at all. Several others said “why why do we have to do all this?” So, because the poorest kids are the ones that were trying to make sure have food. Then they came up with with a provision that is called Community Eligibility Provision. Also named CEP. Now those of you guys that have been in the know so we work that with school nutrition we’ve had provision 1, 2 and 3 as the options since the late 1990s I believe. They are there and that they help the little bit. This originally was called provision 4. Nobody knew that we had 1, 2 and 3 so they they gave the name Community Eligibility Provision.

Deborah Taylor: [00:13:04] And the idea is that if you have kids who are getting things like SNAP benefits, [00:13:13] Tanaiste benefits, [1.2] Indian Commodities Food PIR or FDPIR depending on your tribe. Their families have already provided and done a lot of paperwork in order to get that. So, if your community when by your community we start with the individual school site. If your school site has at least 40 percent of the kids in that building that get that benefits or one of these other government benefits then you can apply for these Community Eligibility Provision and and stop doing the free and reduced meal applications and start keeping track of each child by category. So that is what Community Eligibility Means. It means that the community that you’re providing to already has shown that it’s poor enough to have to provide all of the meals at no charge. And then what you do it’s like a game and I do love games. And so you begin, you are allowed then to combine school sites together and your reimbursement is based on how many of your kids get SNAP benefits and the other benefits that fall into this. The majority are the SNAP benefits and then how many then you can get as many school sites together as possible and you can do it a year allowed it. Any school district can do it. That means that 40 percent requirement in the first place that you have to decide “can I afford to do it?” To me it never made any difference to the child I was feeding. If their daddy was a millionaire it didn’t matter if they were spending a million to that they mainly because of health problems or whatever that child may not have lunch money.

Deborah Taylor: [00:15:21] And then what am I supposed to do? What’s my manager supposed to do if they’ve run out of money and they are in their accounts? Then, everybody talks about shaming kids and that type of thing. It’s like “wait a minute! The way the system is set up parents have to send money or their kids don’t get to eat.

Mathea Ford: [00:15:42] What happened is you said you were able to combine schools. So, at some point you provided free meals to the entire school not just that 40 percent that qualify. Correct?

Deborah Taylor: [00:15:54] Right! Okay, so yes. So, in Oklahoma City the very first year that I was there is the first year that CEP Community Eligibility Provision was available for all of the states in the United States. They had done pilot states leading up to it. And so my first year there we got 55 of our 80 schools. We got 55 of the schools onto the Community Eligibility Provision. It was amazing. That was two thirds of our children. Then I was able to do the math, point out that I felt like we could make it financially. And we got all of the school sites on to the Community Eligibility Provision. Last year was the first year that we had that in Oklahoma City schools. So, the entire Oklahoma City School are on the Community Eligibility Provision and that means we go no kids have to fill out a free and reduced meal application. That means in Oklahoma City it’s our largest school district in Oklahoma. We had an entire building that housed Free and Reduced meal applications.

Deborah Taylor: [00:17:11] When I started working there there was a whole building that was filled with free and reduced meal applications. It was unbelievable. I mean when people don’t work in this field they would be shocked at how much paperwork this program can arrange. The only purpose in it is keeping kids in categories so that we make sure we don’t claim too much money for a child who’s maybe their family makes 80,000 a year and the cutoff was 60,000. It’s like “who cares?” I honestly think that we should be at the point in the United States of America that when kids go to public schools they get a healthy meal. That’s part of what their day includes. We don’t find out the how rich or poor they are in order to ride a school bus. We don’t say we only give textbooks to the poorest kids and all the rest of you. We need you to come up with the money to buy it. Public school is public school. And I think that a healthy meal, a healthy lunch and now just because we know how much better children learn when they do eat breakfast. And I think having them start the day with a healthy breakfast and let’s just pay for that. But then the money that we’re spending on computers and on paper work let’s spend that money on food and just provide these meals for kids.

Mathea Ford: [00:18:43] So, if somebody’s a dietitian in school nutrition working maybe they’re new and they knew that atleast 40 percent of their community was even eligible for these free and reduced lunches. This might be a program that they should start giving in to. Is that what they can do?

Deborah Taylor: [00:19:03] Yes. And all of that data is available online. I can look and see what your kids, I know what school district your kids go to let’s say. And I can go online and look at the not just the whole district and what these numbers are for the district that I can look at each individual school building and see what each school building. Yes. And this is available to everybody nationwide. And it’s on USDA’s website. I believe for the state of Oklahoma, it is also on the State Department of Education – Child Nutrition Program website. We talk about the hunger and hungry kids a lot. And that like I already said that’s just because your parents have enough money does it mean that there are times that child doesn’t have food for whatever reason – moms on a diet, parents are both busy working. Whatever your financial status is if you’re a child and you’re hungry that day you’re not going to learn at the rate that you would learn if you had ifood in your stomach. And we as dietitians, we also look to the big future like how healthy are they going to be when they’re 55 and 60? But I can tell you in school. So, probably they don’t care about that. They care about how the kids are doing today in school and the fact is when kids eat more healthy food and they eat food period they do better in school, they learn better. Specifically, surprisingly in Math by providing school meals at no charge then that means that none of the students have to be embarrassed about eating school meals. And it means that all the kids no matter what their statuses at home they get to have a meal without worrying about it. They will get breakfast they will get lunch every single school day.

Mathea Ford: [00:21:06] I know something else that you guys did that was very kid focused and here in Oklahoma which we both live in Oklahoma we had a teacher strike for a couple of weeks.

Deborah Taylor: [00:21:15] Yes. Yes.

Mathea Ford: [00:21:18] My school district set up some sites where kids could go to get meals but what you guys did was amazing. So, I’d like you to talk about that.

Deborah Taylor: [00:21:29] Well. That was the teacher walk out and we acronymed it to TWO. And I was so proud of Oklahoma City school, the Transportation Department which is the best thing. Their administrators and then Child Nutrition Program worked together so well and we took food out. All of our employees were still on contract so they came in to work and they kept on making food and we took it out. Nobody came to the school building to eat. We drove it out in school buses, in the vans to all these different parks, all these different and several places that provide child care. They weren’t expecting to have kids all day long. So, we took meals to those places. Community like YMCA. I am going Brain-Dead with that many of community thing and including some churches that had children you know that kept kids.

Mathea Ford: [00:22:36] They opened up. Yeah!

Deborah Taylor: [00:22:39] And so we were able to provide lunch for them. All anybody had to do was call and say “hey! We’re over here at Highland Park area and we’re doing we’re feeding 25 kids. I mean we have 25 kids that we’re watching every day. Can you bring us 25 lunches?” And it was like “yes! We’re on it!” And we did that with them for the whole two weeks. It was really really amazing.

Mathea Ford: [00:23:09] Yeah! I mean like what if what parents had to go to work and the kids at home and yes, they can cook for themselves but you came right to their bus stops. And yeah. I’m sure it took quite a bit of just working together in community. But yeah that was I was just really impressed with that because it is really child focused.

Deborah Taylor: [00:23:34] Yes.

Mathea Ford: [00:23:35] All right! So, awesome stuff that’s been fun. There’s always an opportunity to do more stuff. But can you tell me some of the things that are special about school nutrition food that makes it healthier? Because these are some of the things that I’ve been very surprised to try.

Deborah Taylor: [00:23:54] Okay.

Mathea Ford: [00:23:54] There like cereal or milk or whatever you’d like to talk about?

Deborah Taylor: [00:23:58] Okay, so first of all, you know we had the pyramid for a long time but then it got switched to my plate which is much more user friendly for just normal folks. If you take the My Plate that USDA put out and you change it to a tray and we call it My Tray in school. Then each one the the different sections of My Plate is covered on in a school meal. So, we have the protein section, we have the grains section, all of the grains there is okay. School meals by requirement before Michelle Obama came in to place so it’s not fair to blame her for bad food. That’s not fair. Okay? Because you know that. She did emphasize school meals and some of the regulations that everyone had to begin doing were instituted faster than maybe they should have because people have to get used to changing especially in the way that they eat. So, at Shawnee like I already said at Shawnee we’re already doing most of these things already. So, our kids had no problem transitioning. My lunch ladies they cook and prepare and serve these meals. They had no problem in switching because we were already doing most of this stuff. So, in the grains now, everything has to be whole grain rich which means that at least half the grain in that product is whole grain. So, we can’t buy white Pasta, we have to buy whole pasta that’s at least half wholegrain. So, every single bread product bread type product is going to be wholegrain rich on a school meal. It may look like that we have whole wheat now right? That’s something at Shawnee, I had the brown bread since 1994 and then transitioned from Brown wheat bread to 100 percent whole wheat way back in the 90s. And and so we chose not to go use quite whole wheat because I thought it was important to let people know by looking that they were getting whole wheat and we had kids ate it without any problem. And then I found out later that they were telling their parents that’s what they wanted to buy at the store and that was like validated everything I done with school meals. Because that’s my point is that people make better choices at home and throughout their lifetime. With choices that I made for them at school. So, then we have fruit and vegetables for all these years until the changes in 2010. Then we had fruit and vegetable as a combination. Well, if you remember the Dietary Guidelines for Americans they change every five years they’re updated and school meals have to follow what the dietary guidelines are. Well, they said “they’re your vegetables” because in looking at doing studies the maturity of the biggest vegetable piece that people not just children but people in America eat is can you guess?

Mathea Ford: [00:27:21] Lettuce? Or does that even count?

Deborah Taylor: [00:27:24] Yes that does count that. Okay. It is French fries. Not potatoes but french fries specifically.

Mathea Ford: [00:27:33] I didn’t think about French Fries as vegetable so that’s why…. .

Deborah Taylor: [00:27:36] Yes. Yes. Because as dietitians we think of that as how fast that how much and how fast it makes blood sugar and the Glycemic Index that type of thing and so we automatically put potatoes in the starch. Right?

Mathea Ford: [00:27:52] Right!

Deborah Taylor: [00:27:53] In school meals, potatoes have always been a vegetable. And of course they grow like a vegetable. If you check out all their other vitamins and minerals that are in potatoes they’re definitely a vegetable. Yes, they are a vegetable.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:06] So, I agree they vegetable. Never even crossed my mind. Okay.

Deborah Taylor: [00:28:11] Yes. Yes. So French fries and of course I mean I guess you could argue that french fries do have a little some of their earlier vitamins and minerals so let’s do them. But usually when things are fried at 450 degrees it like kills most of that pretty quickly. And they’re skinny. You know so it’s it’s not like a baked potato where you’ve got this whole potatoes stuff – all flat in everything else inside of there you know. It is right. So, that’s where the They’re Your Vegetables came in. And so what they did in school meals was divide vegetables into five different categories that were required in schools to provide every week. And they audited on this on this very carefully. One is the starchy vegetables, one is the dark green vegetables and with each of these they’re on they have the things on the list when its legumes and we know that Americans need to eat way more legumes that we eat that’s the dried peas and beans. One is red orange vegetable and one is then Other – the other category. Anything that didn’t fall into the first four falls in the other. So, that’s cucumbers, then cauliflower and surprisingly cabbage and green beans because dark green there are certain things that are dark green that don’t give us the volume and advantage that they’re wanting you to get in the dark green leafy. It doesn’t but it says dark green. So, broccoli is a dark green but green beans aren’t. Okay? So, the main thing is that you can see this gets pretty complicated. So, we have whole pages of list of vegetables and we are required we can’t leave out the other. You have to provide a half a cup of other vegetable every week and you have to provide a half a cup of each of the different vegetable groups and there they have all kinds of rules and regulations that you know to try to make it so that each child has options of making sure. Like if you have a separate sandwich line. That Sandwich line has to have all five different categories every week. The kid eats off the sandwich line every day, it’s real easy to just put in baby carrots and lettuce and onions for their sandwiches but then they’re not going to get any legumes and they’re not going to get any starchy vegetable. Right? So…

Mathea Ford: [00:30:58] You got to be creative.

Deborah Taylor: [00:31:00] Yes, you have to be creative and you and is it that fun you know.?

Mathea Ford: [00:31:05] Well, I can’t think about…..

Deborah Taylor: [00:31:08] Really? Who wants a boring job. Right?

Mathea Ford: [00:31:11] Yeah! Menu planning to make your cycle menu though. So, I remember doing it in school and thinking I would hate it forever and then I went into food service. I’m like “Oh yeah! I’m going to do cycle menus for the rest of my life.”.

Deborah Taylor: [00:31:26] And thats true.

Mathea Ford: [00:31:28] So, can you talk about some specific food that maybe a little different than like what you would find on the shelf for anything that you use in school food service?

Deborah Taylor: [00:31:36] Okay so then, now then with each school meal. We have to prove the nutrients that are on each tray that we have planned. And so we have what is called CN label – Child Nutrition Label. And so when we buy when you see pizza. Kids love pizza, grown ups love pizza. When you say pizza we in schools, I can’t just make out any old pizza and put it out there just because kids love it. On my pizza, first of all the grain on it, the crust has to be whole grain rich. And then each piece has to provide two ounces of protein to the kids and then I can do some extra things like if I order pizza that has more sauce on it then I might be able to say that it’s also gotten a cup of vegetable. If it’s a Pizza Supreme has you know that has the some peppers and onions and a little bit extra sauce. One of things I would like kids to leave school doing is not giving in ranch dressing which is that subtle. Right? That dipping in to Marinara sauce and eating more because that’s tomatoes and that’s good for it. So, let’s learn. Yeah let’s step our pizza that let’s dip it in Marinara and then think about the good things that are in that Marinara sauce. The same with salsa, onions that’s the big huge change in the last 25 years I’ve done this. When you said Tex is much more Mexican food all of us eat and South of the Border. Yes. So, whatever name we want to give it.

Mathea Ford: [00:33:29] Tex-Mex. Yeah.

Deborah Taylor: [00:33:31] Yes and cause every one of them has just a little bit different flavor profile but we love it. All you know Americans just eat that. So, let’s see more salsa. Let’s eat more Pico de Gallo whether it’s fresh salsa, canned salsa. All of that is a tomato based product. And so the more of that kind of thing that we give our kids and let our kids to enjoy at school then the more they’re going to want to add that as a side to any of their other food. We went through a period where my husband bought giant things as just the two of them we buy these giant things of salsa and he would… it didn’t matter what I ate. He just you know would add a half a cup to a cup of salsa on top of it and it was like “really? Indian food?” I did not try. “But Debra I liked it.” And so what we want kids by the time they leave us to accept if they don’t like trying new things at least they accept that there are new things. So, when a parent looks at our menus you have to remember we’re like a big restaurant chain. We have toas long as we’re charging kids for meals which if you’re not doing CEP then you’re expecting parents to pay for that for their meals. Right? As long as we’re charging for meals and we have to make it where kids choose as over their other options. And so you have to prepare yet to plan menus and food that kids want to eat. And so when you just you know open up your school district’s website and use the app. Look they’re there when hamburgers again. They’re doing pizza again. Well, I mean…

Mathea Ford: [00:35:25] Check everything there.

Deborah Taylor: [00:35:26] Yes. Yes. Now that’s another yes. Kids love chicken now. And that is overtaken pizza as the number one choice now is various forms of chicken.

Mathea Ford: [00:35:38] Because of breading on Chicken Fingers is whole grain?

Deborah Taylor: [00:35:42] Breading on Chicken Fingers is whole grain rich. Absolutely! Would you believe it? Who would ever thought that you know? So. And all of the companies Tyson, Gold, Pilgrim’s Pride.

Mathea Ford: [00:35:58] Kaiser.

Deborah Taylor: [00:35:58] They cant hear it hear it is Pilgrim’s Pride. And all of them make chicken products that we buy those are all CN labeled because there again I have to prove that when a child takes five chicken nuggets that they’re getting two ounces of protein and since we now it also counters one grain because of the breading. So…

Mathea Ford: [00:36:29] And they’re baked and not fried?

Deborah Taylor: [00:36:29] And they’re baked not friend and they taste amazing. And so to one of these things says these big companies that make food for schools Conagra and Smucker’s . I probably shouldn’t have even started mentioning names because there are many many really really good companies that make them make food for us. Pierre – AdvancePierre which was in Enid, Oklahoma they made amazing beef products. Their hamburgers steak grilled hamburgers. I bought a rockin burger that have a teeny bit of onion in the mix and they taste amazing. They taste better than when you go to cook out for people or cooking it on the grill and putting it out there. The school hamburgers taste better than that. I mean it is amazing.

Mathea Ford: [00:37:29] I know when I was in the hospital, a lot of times I would ask my rep. Can you get me something off the school nutrition program stuff so that I can have lower sodium, I can have a whole and have a product that tastes good. I remember getting some cheese that way, I ended up getting but they just don’t naturally show that to health care which is very interesting and a totally different topic. But you know health care you would think that you’re working with people who have some sort of illness. Not aware of any type of you know chronic illness but maybe 50 percent of the people in the hospital have diabetes, heart disease something.

Deborah Taylor: [00:38:11] Yes, they are there for a reason.

Mathea Ford: [00:38:13] Yeah. A lower sodium foods. So, anyway… So, often I do the cereals they’re whole grain. Even like frosted flakes and fruit loops?

Deborah Taylor: [00:38:25] All of and they are lower in sugar. Now then that they had regulations for how what was the maximum amount of sugar that could be in a cereal that we served at school and now they’ve lowered it to this school year right now is the first year that that went into effect. The new regs. So, honestly since I retired at the end you know June 30th then I don’t, I haven’t seen the new ones because I haven’t been to a school. And I mean when you’re eating a good cereal you don’t know if it’s got six grams about of sugar. It’s got 12 grams of that is sugar. One thing I thought my boys when they were growing up is “Okay, look pull a box of cereal off” and back there you know we have the total carbohydrates and then sugars right?

Deborah Taylor: [00:39:26] And they had to get, they could pick any of them but they had to get it where the maximum was half sugar. Well, tons of our tins now are way lower than that. Dramatically lower. So and that tins that’s still one of the things we ask kids “what do you want? What would you like us to add to our menu that we don’t have right now?” Especially at high schools they say they want more variety of cereals and it’s like ” We have eight out there every day. How many varieties do you want?” So, it is. We always have to remember that this is kind of like a family you know at home. We’re feeding kids. What we buy and we tend to kind of make the same things over and over again in schools. Kids are eating in there for 13 years and you know if you and I met for lunch once a month then after eating at our favorite place for four months, we go “Ohh! We go to some place different.” Even though we went there once a month and these kids are going five days a week for 13 years. Right?

Mathea Ford: [00:40:39] But the truth is, kids tend to like certain foods and stick with those.

Deborah Taylor: [00:40:45] Yes.

Mathea Ford: [00:40:46] So, yeah I know because I know my son and daughter like you know we have these choices today, I always like the chicken. Whatever so. But I have two different. My family eat almost anything at school. And then my daughter have the time she makes her lunch because she’ just sure she’s not going to like the school ones. And I will not give her money to go buy from like schools’ students or whatever. Some like something out of the cafeteria or make your lunch.

Deborah Taylor: [00:41:15] They could. I would keep all the money that they want when they eat. They get a school meal, pay for that and then they could buy the things that I sold a la carte and if they wanted to eat out of the vending machines or go out we had open campus at Shawnee for my boys graduated and they wanted to leave with their friends and even off campus. Then, I didn’t want to set up a situation where they were lying to me. And so that’s fine but I’m not going to pay for that. You can work and have your own money and if you want to do that and that works out fine for my boys. Getting the freedom that other high school kids were getting and you know we never ever want to be. It doesn’t help raise people who eat more help make more healthy choices in the end which is what we’re all wanting to do food wise with our kids. We want them to be grown ups that keep on making healthy choices. If we force them to do anything with food that it backfires on us.

Mathea Ford: [00:42:21] If someone’s thinking about this is a career if they’re student or something or may be you know they are interested. What is your best tip for someone talk about this career as a career regarding what it involves or what’s your best thought about that?

Deborah Taylor: [00:42:36] Well first of all you do not have to be a Registered Dietitian/Nutritionist in order to do the job because the main thing is you have to follow the rules. So as dietitians, we understand the rules and we can tweak them and all that kind of thing. But it doesn’t matter if you understand it or not, you follow the rules and the rules are very well laid out in training from the State Department about Child Nutrition Program that’s provided for you all the way through. There’s an Institute of Family Nutrition that is based out of Mississippi. Anybody can Google those and there are all kinds of free online courses. One of the like a twelve hour course is say you want to be a director of a school nutrition program and then a major one also. Those would be things that you could go on and if you’re a student or if you’re in a career field right now or you’re taking a break from working because of children or whatever or if you’re getting tired of what you do or you know you have a move coming up and are going to have to switch that was what happened to me a lot. You know it’s the beginning of things. And so you can get a lot of individual training that was not available when I was when I started. As Registered Dietitians, we get a certain amount of food service management. That’s part of our training and it has to be there you don’t get to be an RD.

Mathea Ford: [00:44:16] Right.

Deborah Taylor: [00:44:16] Make no mistake about it this is a big food service management job. And if you won’t do that well and if you don’t care, I would say try it wouldn’t you? Try it because you may like it. It was certainly not my first choice of what I wanted to do for the rest of my life or whatever but it has it’s turned out to be something that has been extremely rewarding and I feel like I can look at my life and go “Wow! I made a difference in a lot of people’s lives.” And so it’s a food service management job that’s the first thing. And then every school district in the United States of America, they are using this Federal Child Nutrition Program. And I don’t mean a 100 percent that it’s like 99.2% or something of all the public schools choose to use the Federal Child Nutrition Program. So, every town has schools so these kind jobs are available in each town or each… Many states divides school districts up by the county which makes a lot of sense when it comes to very different than intense programs administrative kind of thing like the Child Nutrition Program. Then within one year if you choose a district that the size of Shawnee. Let’s say 10,000 or smaller students then it’s very likely you’ll be the only one there with the degree and then go train other people to do the things that they need to do. If you’re a little bit larger than that then they often act like with more they nearly always have a registered dietitian that’s planning their menus and registering the nutrition analysis. And that is that then has other responsibilities in the district also. That’s a great way to get started.

Deborah Taylor: [00:46:19] High schools have a very commonly a thousand to 4,000 students in them. Being the actual manager in that kitchen and running that kitchen for a year or two would be excellent experience. You’re not going to get paid as much. That would mean basically being a lunch lady that because there are no requirements at this stage that people managing the actual kitchens have anything more than a high school degree but you would learn so much and you would be a fantastic director if you also had that practical experience for a period of time. So, like in Oklahoma City schools we have Operations Coordinators that do have degrees and each of them has 12 to 20 schools that they are responsible for. So, that would be another place or you wouldn’t have to know all of them or you could get get to learn how school meals function and learn you know have the practical experience of managing people and training people and checking quality and checking safety and understanding the meal patterns that kind of thing. You know so that’s another area that you can get involved in. And one of the huge programs that’s out there that people don’t know about unless they’re in more of a poverty type situation a high poverty school, there is a Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Program that you apply for and these are like grants for each site. And with that Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Program is one of the only grants out there that actually provides money for real food.

Deborah Taylor: [00:48:21] We talked a lot about food as dietitians. We teach people about food but having real food there that people we expect people to go home and transfer that wonderful teaching that we do in several foods. But if you can deal with real food in the first place that’s one of the nice things we have in schools.

Mathea Ford: [00:48:48] I love it but those resources because if you’re just seem just thinking about it you can look into those resources or like you can spend a little time.

Deborah Taylor: [00:48:53] Yes.

Mathea Ford: [00:48:54] Question I like to ask my visitor in my interviews. What’s your favorite food?

Deborah Taylor: [00:49:04] Ah and I did expect that because I listened to some of your other things it’s like “Wow! What’s my favorite food.?” And my first instinct to say is Salted Caramel Chocolate Cheesecake Dark Chocolate Cheesecake. That obviously we can’t eat that all the time and so I do love food period. So I think if you were to ask me what was my favorite fruit? Right now, I think I would say mango.

Mathea Ford: [00:49:34] Ohh! I Love mango.

Deborah Taylor: [00:49:35] I know and I didn’t get to grow up with it.

Mathea Ford: [00:49:40] Awesome Deborah! Thank You so much for being on the podcast today. It was a pleasure to have you on a show. I know my listeners has just been immersed in child nutrition and school nutrition. And so, thank you for that. If the listeners want to connect with you, what’s the best way to do that?

Deborah Taylor: [00:49:55] Right now because I am just newly retired, I plan on setting up a blog at some point that my Facebook is Deborah. Spelled the long way D-E-B-O-R-A-H Stout S-T-O-U-T Taylor T-A-Y-L-O-R. And I do the nutrition stuff with my with my kids stuff that if you don’t want see kid pictures you know just be aware that’s my Facebook for everything.

Mathea Ford: [00:50:27] Okay. Well guys, this is again another great episode of the Nutrition Expert Podcast. The podcast that is all about learning more and do more with nutrition in your life.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Android | Email | RSS

Nutrition Experts Podcast Episode 22 News Edition, Nutrition Counseling, Halloween Candy, CBD and Vegetarian Diets with Janet Brancato

by Leave a Comment

Janet Brancato is a Registered Dietitian Nutritionist with a Masters degree in Nutrition from New York Medical College, Valhalla, NY.  She did her undergraduate studies and received a Bachelors of Science in Nutrition from Montclair State University, NJ.

She is experienced in the field of Nutrition for over 20 years, teaching groups, and counseling individuals on diet modifications and lifestyle changes to promote health.  She is experienced with kids, teens, and adults. Her specialty is weight management but she also works with various medical challenges.

The past 15 years she has worked at a local hospital in NJ as an outpatient dietitian and community health speaker.

Janet decided to expand her scope of practice and created Nutopia, LLC a virtual private practice about 5 years ago. She can meet with clients using telehealth technology from the comfort of their home or office.

The motto for her business is “Simplified & Personalized” taking the information and breaking it down into manageable goals and giving clients a personal experience. She motivates and supports clients in between visits.

Janet is also a food blogger, you can check it out on her website www.mynutopia.com.

Follow her on social media:

Facebook – @Nutopia, LLC
Twitter/IG – @janetmsrd

 

Mathea Ford: [00:00:27] Hi there! It’s Mathea. Welcome back to the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast featuring nutrition experts who are leading the way using foods starts today right now with our next guest. It’s great to have Janet Brancato on the show today. Janet, we’re back with our news episode of the Nutrition Expert Podcast. How are you doing today?

Janet Brancato: [00:00:49] I’m doing great! It’s so great to be back with you Mathea. I am so looking forward to discussing some really great topics today.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:57] Yes! So, we found some interesting things that we thought were in the news. If you haven’t listened to a news episode yet, we are talking about things that are basically coming up in the news media or other areas that we think need a little more explanation or maybe people that didn’t pay attention to or just even give our opinions on them. So, we have a couple good topics. I wanted to start with talking about nutrition counseling vs. nutrition coaching and I don’t want to say either of them is bad but I just think it’s important to talk about the difference because as a registered dietitian/nutritionist I think it can be sometimes confusing as to what our role is in health care or even sorting with patients. So, did you have any thoughts on nutrition counseling versus nutrition nutrition coaching?

Janet Brancato: [00:01:53] Yeah. I mean like you said sometimes people you know get mixed up with that but when I think about the counseling portion especially when it comes to nutrition counseling I think about you know making a proper assessment going, seeing what’s going on medically with somebody. Counseling session, spending time talking about their diet and maybe medical needs that they have. So, there some medical nutrition therapy going on as well whereas maybe more of a health coach might be more on the preventative side of things maybe looking more at wellness. They may talk about a little bit more than just diet. They may look at the person’s total lifestyle. Nutrition counseling does too but I know a lot of health coach talk about sleep and other lifestyle practices. Maybe spiritual practices so they kind of look at that whole person. Nutrition counseling does as well but a lot of or sometimes is a little more medically oriented with maybe past medical history or you know the medications you know. So, some of those differences is usually what I like of how I distinguish it as well.

Mathea Ford: [00:03:05] In most states, we have licensure for dietitians so you have to be licensed to do medical nutrition therapy, nutrition counseling and nutrition coaching is not necessarily regulated which is almost frustrating for me as a dietitian because I’m regulated by the states and by our organization as far as ethical guidelines and standards. And I’m not complaining about that. But it also you know it’s difficult to use some of it beyond the state that you’re in or working with other people so I think sometimes we as dietitians or able to do nutrition coaching across borders if we’re wanting to do something that’s not necessarily like we’re not necessarily look at your labs writing a note for your doctor using that type of thing but using our knowledge and our basic information to help someone to make better choices. And that reminds me of like the motivational interviewing a little bit that people do sometimes but really it is about what you’re motivated to change. So, I think that’s where health coaching can help is looking at what are you willing to do. What is the next best thing for you to try to change.

Janet Brancato: [00:04:26] Yeah exactly! Yeah. And also as an RDN, we need to follow evidence based guidelines so you know we need to keep up with continuing education credits. Like you said we need to follow research that’s been done. Evidence based guidelines. We’re giving somebody the information that they need you know supporting them with knowledgeable information as well as counseling.

Mathea Ford: [00:04:53] That’s interesting. Thinking about the outcomes based and evidence based because this man I went to our Oklahoma City Dietetic Association we had a speaker come and he was talking about obesity and weight loss and stuff but something he said towards the end was very interesting because he talked about the Placebo Effect. So we all know what the placebo effect is or if you dont. It is basically used in a scientific study. A lot of times you may you’re given either a drug or you’re giving something that is inactive but it’s called a placebo and they tell you you basically don’t know if you received the drug or the placebo which have no effect but people respond sometimes to getting the placebo just because they believe they can. He presented a study about anabolic steroids and these weightlifters believed that they were being given a steroid and they are had these incremental gains that were supported you know by research to show as significant 10 percent 20 percent increase in bench press and things. And the reality was they were given a placebo. Everybody was given a placebo and so when they were told at the end of the time after they made these gains that really you were not given the drug you did this you know basically because you believed you could you push yourself harder whatever. And they found that after a period of time that those people went back to having not the same gains because they basically didn’t have that belief anymore. And so he referred to that as Noceboing. Basically, you tell him you given placebo tell them they can do it and then you tell them “Oh! I didn’t give you a placebo, you can’t. You do it all on your own and that’s like a buzz kill or whatever.” So, he was using that in reference to talking about when you talk to your patients to basically let them and help them understand and feel like what they’re doing is normal. So, yes you didn’t lose weight this week but you can’t give up because you have the ability to do this or these things work. We know this outcomes research works. Instead of giving them an excuse of saying like I’m if they say “I’m an emotional eater” you don’t give them that basically cop out to say “Okay, you’re an emotional eater you don’t have. You’re never going to lose weight whatever.” We would never say that but in a way when they say “I’m an emotional eater” we have to basically direct them back to those things that they can do that are going to help them to help them to believe that this is possible.

Janet Brancato: [00:07:44] Yes. You have to help somebody find their motivation even have to paint that picture for them where they want to be. When I work with clients I asked them you know “what is your goal? It’s not just losing weight. Okay. What is that going to mean for you? How is that going to change your life? How are you going to feel? How is that going to affect you long term?” And you know you sort of get it out of them and paint that picture with them. It really stirs something. They start to picture themselves. You break it down into steps with them and you say “Look, this is something you can do let’s break it down the steps. It’s the small goals that you can work you know and that’s why the extra support is needed when you’re coaching or counseling somebody you know you’re that extra support. You’re that cheerleader behind and you’re helping them along the way. If you just have one visit with somebody you’re going to give them a lot of information but it’s going to be hard for them to put it into action. People need that extra support and motivation. That’s what I try to instill and provide is that support and helping them to break it down into doable tests like you said that they can feel like “wow! I did this you know and I can continue to do this!”

Mathea Ford: [00:09:00] That reminds me of the way we think about our goals a little bit sometimes. Instead of thinking “I want to lose weight to think about what am I going to” So, if I think I want to lose weight and I lose five pounds then I achieved my goal. Maybe I didn’t maybe my goal was was to lose 50 pounds but I lost five pounds and I go “Oh! I met my goal!” But if my goal is to run a marathon or to exercise five days a week or to even state that number instead of saying “I want to lose weight, I want to weigh 150 pounds.” That gives you somewhere that you’re going not somewhere that you’re moving away from. So, that can be really helpful to people. We know that we have training. We go to school, we have an internship, we have testing, we work on outcomes based. Health coaches can have some training. I’ve talked to a couple in the last couple months that were functional nutrition practitioners and it seems like that’s a pretty good program that has a lot of basis in education, facts and even some RDs that I talked an RD the other day that did that has done that certifications.

Janet Brancato: [00:10:19] The thing that I also want to mention is that nutritionist is a broad term. It’s a very general broad term. So, like you said there you want to find out what the background of that person is. Okay? You want to find out about their training and their coursework. Did they just take one class or did they have a degree in it or do they have some kind of certificate of some sort from accredited you know institution? So, you want to find out you know like I said nutritionist is broad we know a registered dietitian has a criteria. Okay? So, we have all had to go through the criteria of coursework and passing a rigorous exam and keeping up with credits where a nutritionist is more broad so you need to do a little math homework to find out. “Okay. What kind of background in training?”.

Mathea Ford: [00:11:09] Okay, so next topic. I’m not even going to do a transition. I don’t even know how to do one. I want to talk a little bit about eating more plant based. This month is vegetarian month. So, how can you eat more plant based? What is eating more plant based mean?

Janet Brancato: [00:11:31] Okay. So, eating more plant based and we’re finding out more and more that the plant these foods are anti-inflammatory. So, you know inflammation can be a root cause of some chronic conditions. So, anti-inflammatory sort of counters that and can help anti-aging. It can help with weight management. It’s good for your heart. It’s high in lots of nutrients, fiber, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants and a lot of vegetables are lower calorie so you can actually more of those foods feel nice and full but you’re getting all these benefits so and it’s also really great for the environment. We’re also finding that it’s good for our gut bacteria which is good for overall health as well. So there’s really so much evidence about eating more plant based. It doesn’t mean you have total vegetarian but it’s leaning more towards plant based. Vegetables, fruits, whole grains, beans, nuts, seeds seeing where you can implement them into your regular eating pattern.

Mathea Ford: [00:12:32] I think people get confused when they think about plant based because they think it means vegetarian. But what it really means is more of your plates is from plants, from nutrients and I listened to your presentation in February or something this year and I honestly can’t remember the person although I apologize but she talked about you either eat the plants that have the nutrients or you eat the animals that ate the plants that have that nutrients. So, eating plant based more plants. You’re basically just going closer to the source because cows and pigs and other animals that we eat eat plant based. So you’re just getting the nutrients that they basically processed and built in two different muscle that we then eat. So, more plant based is just going to be having a smaller portion of meat or even just using some time to not have meat on your plate.

Janet Brancato: [00:13:31] Yeah! You could fill up three quarters of your plate with some plant foods you know. Try to get in a lot of times you could do half your plate as vegetables. It could be one main vegetable like maybe a big salad or you could do maybe some broccoli in the salad or you know you can kind of break it up with different types of vegetables you could put a whole grain on your plate which could be like a brown rice or a quinoa or something like that or some beans, maybe some fruit and then either an animal source like you said a really good quality animal source that’s had a plant diet. The grass something grass fed or something that’s lean, some kind of a lean source of protein would also be good as far as a balanced plate.

Mathea Ford: [00:14:15] How do you get more vegetarian if you’re thinking about it kind of doing a little more vegetarian? How do you work to get more vegetarian meals in your diet?

Janet Brancato: [00:14:26] Well, me personally I mean I you know I tried to when even when I go food shopping I try to start at that produce section and I try to get inspired. I try to start there. Now, there’s all that color and I try to add color to my plate whether I’m having a meal or snack or say “well, how can I have some color?” You know so I try to add veggies either at every meal. Slip it into dishes that I’m making. You know sometimes we’ll have a vegetarian night where I just kind of swap out the maybe the chicken for some beans or a little tofu. You know so you could find ways of either going meatless for a night, you can do like a Meatless Monday a lot of people do that. And there’s actually a great website called meatlessmonday.com where you can find some great recipes. You could start with one day a week. Some people I know do they might do meatless per say breakfast and lunch and then they’ll have an animal source at dinner. I’ve done that or I might do one or two nights where I do meatless. So, I’m not you know I try to eat more plant based I’m not totally vegetarian. I do enjoy you know meat, chicken, fish you know. So, I don’t have a problem with eggs and dairy and all but I’m leaning more towards plant based something I do you know hope to inspire others to do you know. So, it’s so easy to do adding more veggies doesn’t all have to be fresh veggies because I know a lot of people say well they go bad easily. So, maybe some frozen you know have some frozen veggies that you could easily turn into something for dinner. Something that you could either put in the microwave or easily sautee. It doesn’t have to be very time consuming.

Mathea Ford: [00:16:08] Yeah! I’ve found that it seems to almost take just a little bit of a mindset switch. So, when I grew up meat was the center of the plate and that was how I grew up with that mentality, that thought process. And so starting to think of it as more filling, better, healthier foods but also just acknowledging that I didn’t really need the whole eight ounces or twelve ounces of steak. I really only three or four ounces of that meat and sometimes not even any meat at all but just enjoying the flavor of those vegetables and getting that variety. So, I love the idea of you know doing like a meatless meal once a week or whatever but I have really found the biggest change for me is to just say to myself “I really enjoy eating salads.” That doesn’t matter whether why I’m doing it? If I’m doing it just because I enjoy it. Does it have to be for some higher purpose but instead of thinking I have to eat meat at every meal because or somehow I’m going to be deficient. Which it’s very rare in this country. You did mention something that I do would like I would like you to talk about a lot more because there are nutrient dense foods and there are calorically dense foods. And since I know there’s a lot of people in this that are not necessarily dietitians can you talk about how nutrient dense and calorically dense. What’s the difference?

Janet Brancato: [00:17:43] It’s so nutrient dense is going to mean that you’re going to get a high amount of nutrients. So, very high in nutritional components like vitamins, minerals, fiber, other nutrients maybe those antioxidants. You’re going to get a lot for lower calorie intake. You can actually eat more of those and get more of those nutrients but naturally they’re high in nutrients. Calorically dense is meaning that the calories are a little bit richer. You know still there still could be nutrients especially if it’s like a healthy oil or fat or something like that. They’re a little more calorically dense but they still providing nutrients but you might have to eat less of those just because those calorie intake. And then you have calorically dense foods maybe more like sugary foods or sweets or things like that that are lower nutritionally but are calorically high. So, those you might have to again not do every day or watch portions of those nutrient dense foods you could eat more often, eat more higer portions of you know they tend to be less calories but they are higher in nutrient profile, those vitamins and minerals, nutrients that our body needs – essential nutrients that we need.

Mathea Ford: [00:19:01] Yeah I think sometimes people don’t realize you can eat a ton of salad for the same amount of calories as you know two or three ounces of meat or you know a doughnut or something like that.

Janet Brancato: [00:19:13] Sometimes you can’t even eat when I show people like a cup of raw veggies you know is a serving and you it’s lot to eat a cup of carrots. Let it crunch two halves and you get full you know but the calories are so low you could eat more of those you know. So you could definitely you know fill up on that versus even you know something that’s maybe more calorically dense might be like nuts. You want to eat a smaller portion but there are nutritionally there are good quality you know. So sometimes you know you have to think about that too. But yeah definitely a lot of salad and those veggies you could definitely do more of.

Mathea Ford: [00:19:50] You also mentioned that being a vegetarian is a lot more than just not eating meat. What do you see as some of the social or environmental focus that people who are vegetarian because it does seem to be more of a lifestyle choice? And when I talk to people especially dietitians who are working toward plant based diets or vegetarians. Most of the time they mentioned the social and environmental impacts that it has.

Janet Brancato: [00:20:17] It’s more environmentally friendly you know for the environment. Obviously, plants are good for our environment right? Providing oxygen and feeding our you know feeding for the environment in general. It’s so important. And then even just the processing it takes a lot to process animal sources of food you know. So, that’s sort of a big impact on our environment just caring for you know and handling you know meat production and that type of thing of where it is you know plants you know are really good for the environment. You know so we need more you know why those plant based foods. Like I said just you know in terms of the environmental cycles.

Mathea Ford: [00:20:59] Speaking of eating more veggies, I know we talked about I think we talked a little bit about farmers’ markets last month but I wanted to talk about farmers’ markets all year round and specially kind of the summer year finding farmers’ markets near you. Because I think farmers markets are a great place to start if you’re trying to be more plant focused more plant based. If you go to a farmers market you find products that are in season and then you create the rest of your meal around that. So, if tomatoes are on season and cauliflower and broccoli are in season you go and you go to the farmer’s market you buy those and you find you know you make your meal a round that. Instead Of making it around the meat, you’re making the meal around the vegetable. So, or you know fruits as well but… So, I have a resource for people if they want to find a farmer’s market near them, you can go to a localharvest.org/farmers-market so that will show farmers markets near you. But you have any tips for shopping at farmers’ markets?

Janet Brancato: [00:22:13] I love going to farmers markets. I think it’s really great for towns, for farmers. Like I said environmentally it’s great. You’re connecting with where your food sources so you get to know where your food is coming from and like you said seeking out seasonal produce in foods is really great because they’re at their peak of flavor and they’re at their peak of nutrition so they’re probably more budget friendly. You know it’s not going to take a toll on your budget as well. So, yes, so seeking out a good farmer’s market in your area they’re popping up all over. I know by me we have almost every town has one. You just want to maybe have a plan before you go. Think about maybe what you want to buy you know, how much you want to spend you know. Think a little bit about meals maybe you want to do or maybe you want to just try something new, you want to just kind of peruse through the farmer’s market first. Just kind of walk around and just sort of take in what’s there you know and what’s what looks good to you maybe even talk to the farmer or whoever is selling the products and just kind of find out a little bit about it. And you know whatever kind of strikes you mean you know try something new. That’s always good to always try to look for maybe something I can’t find in the grocery store. So you do that as well. I actually wrote a book, a blog recently about farmer’s market but more on the food safety end of things because we actually had a friend that was on vacation and became ill from something that they ate at a farmers market. Not that this is going to be a common practice but it just kind of stood out to me and I said wow I really wanted to write a little bit about maybe some tips for just kind of keep it safe. You know just making sure that you know the people that are serving you the food or if you’re buying like something Jarg you know that they’re there handling things well. Things look clean you know. There’s gloves on when they’re handling the food. So, you know just safety practices that you just want to maybe you know make sure that things will like I said clean, if anything refrigerated you know that temperature controls are there of some things being served hot or cold. Those are things to keep in mind too. Farmers’ markets are safe but you know you just want to sort of like you would any other type of restaurant or food market. Just want to make sure that things look clean are handled well. You know maybe things are covered if there’s insects around you want to make sure that things look safe as well. But farmers’ markets are wonderful. Like I said you can find so many good delicious finds, produce and other maybe some of them have bakery type items as well seasonal cheeses but you want to make sure things are pasteurized. You know that things are safe as well.

Mathea Ford: [00:25:08] Well, it’s important to note that most cities if you’re serving food do inspections. So if you don’t see some sort of food inspection sign or they usually have the rating or something you may want to be a little more cautious. But I agree with you that it’s also a great way to get to know farmers and talk to them and to say “hey if you’re trying to buy more organic” I think a great way to get maybe some more organic stuff without necessarily it’s expensive to be quote unquote certified as organic. But a lot of times if you talk to the farmer and you ask them about how they’re doing, how they’re raising their produce, how they’re you know what kind of pesticide are they using. A lot of their practices are along the lines of organic but maybe they didn’t have the money or the resources or it’s not a 100 percent organic but it’s certainly better if you’re choosing along those lines. So, I think it’s great to get the opportunity to get to know them and talk to them and find out how how do I know this is right? How do I know that avocados are right? How do I know that whatever type of thing is healthier or ready to serve and how is the best way to serve it? So I think it’s a great opportunity to talk to farmers and get to know them and a lot of times like you said they have prepared foods. They may have Jelly’s, they may have other things that they make.

Janet Brancato: [00:26:42] Yeah! And Find out about it.

Mathea Ford: [00:26:43] So, I think it’s just great when you’re thinking about eating more organic, eating more vegetarian if that’s what you want to do. We know there’s research that shows that eating more plant based is definitely healthier. So, just change your focus a little bit on that plate to being more about the side dishes so to speak. So I wanted to I on the Food Nutrition magazine this month. There was talk about Cannabis and it was a one page article written by Janice Bissex who’s going to be on my podcast and I thought it was a great article because CBD is in almost every state. And so CBD is short for I mean I’m probably mispronounces cannabinoid oil. Its something like that. That’s why what we call CBD. So, she talked about some myths and thoughts and I just wanted to talk a little bit because I think even my first impression when I saw CBD being sold. First of all, it’s being sold everywhere at like gas stations in stores and on the Internet and I happened to have a little bit of hesitance when I think there’s probably a lot of quality difference between. You don’t know necessarily that is the highest quality depending on where you’re buying it. So, I would just caution people if they’re looking for CBD to make sure they know the source because they they’ve done some testing randomly and found that you know there’s this is still a product that is not regulated or tested like a medicine because it’s considered like a supplement. So there’s no rules that if you say it’s 10 percent or 50 milligrams or whatever that that has to be there.

Janet Brancato: [00:28:40] Right! Yes. See, that’s what I had read as well that you don’t always know what the concentration is going to be and if you’re going to get what they’re saying that’s in there as far as a CBD oil so you may not get that concentration. So, knowing like you said that source because it’s not regulated you may or may not be getting all of that. So that’s that’s sort of a key thing to remember.

Mathea Ford: [00:29:04] CBD is used for a lot of different things. There’s a lot of claims people make. I don’t believe any of them have been researched. And the reason that I’m in research is because they’re part of the marijuana plant. They are not marijuana. So, CBD versus marijuana, CBD does not contain THC which is the psychoactive part but I’ve had a little bit of reading and did you know about the endo cannabinoid system? So, it’s a system that’s in our body and it’s basically like a neuro it’s a receptor in our body. And there are some in our brain and there some along our nervous system and that’s what the endocannabinoid cannabis oils or whatever connects to that cause the relief that people feel. And I was like I have never heard of this system and it’s because basically marijuana has been a drug and it’s considered a drug sold by the FDA but are not well federal government. As a lot of states approve it, I think we as dietitians have to start understanding what the effects are and what the changes can be and how it can help people because both of these medications if they’re I shouldn’t call them medication both of these products if they’re truly what they say they are do have benefits for people.

Janet Brancato: [00:30:38] Yeah! I Mean I’m not an expert in it and I’m really interested in finding out more and I want to listen to your podcast about it. But just reading a little bit about it it really does encompass. I mean if it’s does what it say it’s going with you know relieving anxiety, pain, pain management, insomnia, other saying seizure disorder, inflammatory bowel disease, muscle spasms. So, again this is what is being said as far as health benefits of CBD and even medical marijuana for chronic pain like I mentioned cancer, decreasing appetite, epilepsy. So you know we’ll have to wait and see you know sort of outcomes with that. Like you said you see I’m seeing it everywhere you know in terms of CBD because it doesn’t have the THC in it. It’s you know you can find it in oil form, there’s gummies, there’s all kinds of methods of using the CBD. But like you said it has to come from a reputable source so that really is a key component there. But it’ll be interesting to see the future of this. They are definitely you know it’s a hot topic.

Mathea Ford: [00:31:51] One of the things that I think people are confused by is a lot of times people see hemp seed oil and CBD oil and those are two different things. The hemp seed has grapes like antioxidant properties but it doesn’t necessarily have the same function of CBD. But even my first impression was that it’s dangerous or risky and CBD oil if you’re truly getting a product that is tested and produced ethically then it’s not just oil and water in a jar. Then it can be people can find some some help from it. So yeah yeah yeah I talked about it. You know that’s interesting because I think a lot of times here in Oklahoma we just became the 30th state or whatever to approve medical marijuana. And when I talk to my doctor it’s almost like there’s still a fear about it. They just don’t get educated on it. They don’t understand it.

Mathea Ford: [00:32:59] If you feel like it’s something that’s good for you. Talk to your doctor verify that it’s not going to be affecting you negatively. So I would just I guess kno medical professional, we tend to go with the outcomes based on the evidence base. In this case there’s just not the research because of the past history. What I hope in the next 10 years were like “Okay. These are all the research and the sort of things that have been shown.” You just have to make sure that it’s truly what it says. All right. So this month is October and we went from talking about CBD which can be gummies.

Janet Brancato: [00:33:36] Uhuh!

Mathea Ford: [00:33:37] Let’s talk a little bit about Halloween because Halloween is a big opportunity to just get your sugar fix. I want to talk about some ways that families and dietitians and health care professionals can help people to not necessarily go crazy on Halloween. So, you got any ideas?]

Janet Brancato: [00:33:58] First of all don’t stress about it. I mean I have a lot of clients are saying “Oh no! Halloween’s coming!” It’s only one day. Here’s a thing, maybe don’t have candy hanging around in your home. Some people buy it so early because the stores are putting it out. You know as soon as summer is over you see the Halloween candy out in the grocery stores which always makes me laugh. But people start buying and so it’s hanging around their house too long. So you know I always wait. I know personally I wait. So, right before Halloween I only try to buy a few things you don’t even have to buy all candy. You know I know a lot of people that will not provide like pencils or erasers or you know you could do non-food related giveaways. But if you want to you know have the candy maybe something that you don’t like have that in the house. That could be something that you do buy something that you’re not a fan of. So that could be something as well as I said just don’t have a lot of bags hanging around and then once the holiday is over. Get rid of it. You could donate the candy or just kind of slowly get rid of it. I used to do that with my kids just slowly empty out the bowl every day. But with your kids again you know try not to make such a big deal about them. Obviously, it’s exciting but some things that you can do to maybe control their intake might be you know making sure they eat something decent before they go out trick or treating. You don’t want them to be starving when they go trick or treating they’re going to be eating all that candy as they go so maybe try to give them a little mini meal or good snacks. And this way they’re sort of full. They’re not so hungry. And you know maybe talk to them about like you know we’re not going to eat while we’re trick or treating just you know get the candy and when you get home you know you want to check that candy make sure packages are closed and things like that so you know we want to make sure that it’s safe. So, tell them to just bring the candy home and then you can kind of sort through it with them. So that would be great as well. And then you know maybe let them select a few of their favorites to have that day. You know just like them because they’re going to want to eat their candy. You don’t want them to go crazy but you know maybe a couple of their favorites they can enjoy.

Mathea Ford: [00:36:13] Yeah! Love these ideas. In my house. Yeah, we try to pick the last very last day to get the candy and then I agree. So, sometimes I’ve taken my bags of the candy and put them in the freezer. So, it’s kind of hidden behind the vegetables. The frozen vegetables so the kids not hold for it and then they can have it some time later. But I agree with donating. A lot of times dentists sold what you donate or you know shelters whatever. Just make sure you’re checking the candy. A lot of things look like candy that aren’t candy. And make sure that the kids are brushing their teeth after eating the candy. So, they have a meal. Maybe you let them have some candy at night just make extra sure that they’re brushing their teeth instead it eating that candy kind of all throughout the day and then just not it back can cause more cavities so. But yeah you had some great tips there just trying to make sure that it’s just a little bit healthier and giving away things that are aren’t candy. And sometimes you just limit how many houses they go to. I know they want to go to tons of houses and they want to stay out for a couple of hours.

Mathea Ford: [00:37:30] But truly you if you dress up, you do all the pictures and go to houses for an hour 30 minutes or whatever. A lot of times kids are tired at that point anyway. They’re dragging. You don’t have to somehow let them have a whole pillowcase full of candy.

Janet Brancato: [00:37:50] You could set up a little time limit with them. And I think in terms of food allergy so maybe if you’re going to have candy in your home. Keep in mind that you know kids you know maybe don’t have to have nut free type of selections too. So, that would also be good. But yeah, just don’t overdo it. You know and maybe have a conversation before Halloween say “you know it’s fun, it’s enjoyable. You know let’s have a little strategy here so we’re not overdoing things” and sometimes having that little conversation with your child. You know they might be going to parties and all that so you know not just see what the plan of the day is going to be. But like you said if you give them that healthy meal before they go out and then you sort of have a conversation look “when you come back full check for your candy you could select you know two or three favorites. Enjoy it. Brush your teeth” like you said and then you know right after that I start to get rid of it in some way.

Mathea Ford: [00:38:45] Well and a lot of times you just reminded me a lot of times at schools they have Halloween parties or ball parties or whatever that kid can get candy at to say you just want to know kind of what the plan is at the school too if you have kids that go to school. Well it’s a great talk Janet. We talked about nutrition counseling, we talked about vegetarian, farmers markets, cannabis, marijuana and Halloween. This is a great talk today.

Janet Brancato: [00:39:13] Yes, a lot of fun, a lot of great topics. I really enjoyed it.

Mathea Ford: [00:39:18] Janet did I let you last time to tell us where to find you?

Janet Brancato: [00:39:21] So I think I mentioned it briefly last time. But yeah just remind everybody that my website is mynutopia.com. And I do online nutrition counseling and coaching. I have meal plans and recipes. And so you know you can find online and I also have a blog as well so I’d love to connect.

Mathea Ford: [00:39:40] All right. Thanks!

Janet Brancato: [00:39:42] Great!

Mathea Ford: [00:39:42] This great episode of the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast that is all about learning more so can do more with nutrition in your life.

 

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Android | Email | RSS

Nutrition Experts Podcast Episode 21 Cannabis For Medicinal Use with Janice Bissex, RDN

by 1 Comment

Janice Newell Bissex is a Registered Dietitian Nutritionist, cookbook author, speaker, and Holistic Cannabis Practitioner.

After her dad found relief from his pain using medical marijuana it became Janice’s mission to help others suffering from chronic pain, anxiety, insomnia, autoimmune diseases, IBD/IBS, and other debilitating conditions find relief with cannabis/CBD.  She completed training at the Holistic Cannabis Academy, and now advises clients on access, proper cannabinoid ratios, dosing, best consumption methods, and cooking with cannabis at Jannabis Wellness. She partnered with a Colorado manufacturer of organically-grown medicinal grade hemp to provide phytocannabinoid-rich hemp/CBD products for her clients under her Jannabis Wellness label.

Janice spent much of her career creating recipes and educating families about healthy cooking and eating at Meal Makeover Moms and Janice Cooks. A 2015 recipient of the Media Excellence Award from the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, Janice has authored five books, including Color and Eat the Alphabet: Healthy Eating from A to Z, an educational coloring book for kids of all ages.

Janice is past president of the Massachusetts Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics and past chair of the Food & Culinary Professionals practice group of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. A mom of grown daughters, Janice lives outside of Boston with her husband and miniature dachshund, Ella. She enjoys kayaking, hiking, travel, yoga, and cooking and hosting events in her recently renovated kitchen.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:26] Hey there it’s Mathea. Welcome back to the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast featuring nutrition experts who are leading the way using food starts today right now with our next guest. It’s great to have Janice Bissex on the show today. Janice welcome to Nutrition Experts. I’m excited to have you on the show and share your expertise with my tribe.

Janice Bissex: [00:00:49] Well, I’m excited to be on your show as well. Thanks for inviting me over Mathea.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:53] Well, I just love this topic because it’s something that dietitians I think don’t know a whole lot about. And honestly even here in Oklahoma we just approved medical marijuana. We’re going to talk about cannabis today and even just talking to my doctor like “How are you thinking about implementing this type stuff?” There is a little bit of fear still a little bit. So…

Janice Bissex: [00:01:18] Absolutely!

Mathea Ford: [00:01:20] I would love you just to start with telling my listeners a little bit more about you and what you do.

Mathea Ford: [00:01:24] Okay. Well, let’s see. I’ve been a Registered Dietitian/Nutritionist for a few decades and I’ve done everything from cardiac rehab to selling nutrition software, working at a luxury hotel. And then I co-founded Meal Makeover Moms with a nutrition colleague for almost 15 years. We wrote five books and we taught busy families how to eat a healthy diet. And that was all great. I enjoyed that and being the sort of family nutrition experts. And that was good. And then a couple of years ago my dad was sick he suffered multiple spinal fractures and he was in a lot of pain. And he was put on the traditional pain meds and they had terrible side effects. They made him a zombie. He became excruciatingly constipated that required hospitalization. So, finally I said to his doctor “you know isn’t there anything else that we can do for him to help manage his pain?” And I said “What about medical marijuana?” Now, Mathea, I honestly knew nothing about medical marijuana or cannabis in general. It just never really crossed my radar. I tried once in college because I felt like I should do that before I leave. But that was it. That was my… That was my biggest you know experience with cannabis. So, the doctor looked at me and he said I think that’s a great idea. And I thought “oh boy! Well, now I need to learn about it.” So, I started to learn about it. I took my dad to get certified to a doctor, he got a vape pen with medical marijuana and we came home. He was in a lot of pain and he took two puffs and he said “wow!” And I said “Are you okay?” And he said “I’m not in pain.” And right then I said this is it. I am completely changing my career focus. I am going to go back to school to learn about cannabis and find out why does it work. I had no idea why it worked. And that’s what I decided to do. And I basically haven’t looked back since.

Mathea Ford: [00:03:39] Wow! That’s an excellent story to see in that personal moment to say it worked that quick.

Janice Bissex: [00:03:47] And it was just so surprising to me because I wasn’t… I wasn’t in tune to that and didn’t want to say I was angry but I thought here’s something you can help people without all those terrible side effects from opioids and other pain meds and we don’t know about it. Why are we not being told about this? Well, the first obvious answer is that on the federal level cannabis is illegal. So, that’s the reason that we are really told about it. And yet 30 states Oklahoma. Welcome aboard 30th state to legalize medical marijuana. 30 states. It is legal so… But doctors don’t know about it. They really don’t. They weren’t trained. You and I weren’t trained in this. I mean I didn’t know anything about cannabis. So, it’s really the last decade or two that the medical benefits have become more widely known. Now it’s been used medicinally for 10000 years. You know back in Chinese medicine it was used in India. It’s been used throughout time. But then it became sort of demonized in the early nineteen hundreds and there was a big “oh just say no! It’s bad for you it’s the evil weed. It’s going to ruin your brain” and all of that. So, it was sort of pushed aside and then over the last couple of decades it’s come back to life. So, people now they’re doing more research around the world not in the U.S. because it’s illegal. So, there’s a little bit of research being done here. But a lot of research done especially in Israel and the Netherlands places like that that have some pretty good research showing the medical benefits of cannabis. So, that is something that people are catching on to and saying “Okay, wait a minute if that’s an option why would I take these pharmaceuticals?”.

Mathea Ford: [00:05:47] Especially that you know can be addictive and cause a lot of problems. Can you tell us what it is about cannabis that causes it to work quickly and help with so many different conditions?

Janice Bissex: [00:05:59] It all starts with the Endocannabinoid System. And this was discovered in 1992. It’s a neurotransmitter system in our bodies and we actually produce at least two cannabinoids. So, when you look at the cannabis plant there are about 100 cannabinoids. They’re just compounds in the plant which every plant has different compounds that may give them health benefits. So, cannabis has about a hundred. We produce two on our own in our own bodies. Anandamide which is called the Bliss Molecule and 2-AG. So, we produce these cannabinoids and the whole goal of this Endocannabinoid System is to maintain homeostasis. So, if your body doesn’t produce enough Anandamide for example the incidence of anxiety is much higher because Anandamide can promote a feeling of wellbeing.

Janice Bissex: [00:06:58] It can potentiate your serotonin receptors. So, those happy people that you know chances are they’re producing a good amount of anandamide in their own bodies. So, what happens is if you don’t produce a lot of anandamide then you could have more anxiety and depression. So, if you introduce CBD or cannabis and we’ll talk about the difference between those in a minute. If you introduce that into your body by taking a tincture or a pill or vaping some cannabis flour then that gets your whole system working better. So, you’re helping your own system produce more anandamide and therefore you feel better. So, it’s kind of amazing. And I mentioned CBD and CBD is one of the cannabinoids in cannabis. There is THC which people more likely have heard of and that’s the cannabinoid that’s responsible for the psycho activity or the intoxication. So, you could very well get high or stoned if you have a high THC cannabis or marijuana variety. CBD does not have the intoxicating side effect. So, if you take CBD, you get a lot of the health benefits like it’s antianxiety that I spoke of, pain – decreases pain. So, those neurotransmitters that I was talking about. So, you’ve got a whole system where if you have pain in your body the signal comes down the neurotransmitter and then it goes to the next one in that sends the pain signal down to your leg or wherever you have pain. So what cannabis does or CBD does is it interrupts that signal so that that pain signal isn’t getting there. In another way that CBD decreases pain is that it’s a potent anti-inflammatory. So, inflammation is one of the causes of many of our chronic diseases it’s a contributing factor. So, if you can take something that tones down the inflammation in your body I mean we talk about an anti-inflammatory diet so we want to eat lots of vegetables and we want to you know have these foods that are anti-inflammatory. Well, CBD does that. I mean it is a plant right? We’re supposed to be eating a plant based diet so CBD from the plant and it’s a potent anti-inflammatory so that’s just another way that you see a decrease in pain using CBD or cannabis. The ratio of CBD to THC is something that everybody should look at when they’re choosing a medicine. Some people actually require a little bit of THC. There’s nothing wrong with THC. THC has medical value. It’s just that a lot of the people that I work with don’t want to be high. They don’t want to be stoned. They just want relief. They want relief from muscle spasms, from pain, from anxiety, from insomnia without the high. So, that’s why the CBD has seen a lot more popularity recently.

Mathea Ford: [00:10:26] One I know that in most states I believe CBD is legal because it does not contain THC.

Janice Bissex: [00:10:31] Yes, if you go strictly by the definition it’s legal in in almost every state. There are some states that it’s a little bit gray and then at the federal level they say that any derivatives of cannabis are illegal. I actually had someone call the DEA and say “So, what’s the deal is CBD legal or is it not legal?” And if the person at the DEA said “We are certainly not concerned people consuming CBD.” You know that’s just not at the top of our radar. Now, the FDA on the other hand is cracking down on some manufacturers because right now with CBD showing such people are really interested in it. So, a lot of people are getting on board and saying “I’m going to sell CBD” and they’re sourcing their CBD from around the world. There aren’t tight controls. They did tests and they found that more than half did not contain the CBD that the manufacturer said. So, you really have to be careful buying CBD online from someone or some business that you don’t really know is for real and anyone who wants to buy CBD. They should demand to ask for independent lab testing of the product.

Mathea Ford: [00:11:55] Can you talk a little bit more about cannabis in general and kind of how it’s available for people to use?

Janice Bissex: [00:12:00] There are a lot of different ways that you can consume cannabis. Everyone knows about the smoking. You know you can smoke a joint, a pipe, a bong. So that’s one way to get it for the most parts you know smoking a joint. Some people still like to do that but some of the toxins go into your lung and that’s not my favorite way and I don’t have any clients that prefer that method of smoking there is vaping which is better than smoking because it burns at a lower temperature a couple hundred degrees lower so you don’t get those toxic byproducts. So, if you decide to vape. When my dad first went to the dispensary they gave him a vape pen with an oil cartridge and it looks like a little pen and you breathe in and you can get it that way. But most people turn to things like tinctures. So, you can get a tincture that’s oil based or alcohol based. The alcohol based ones, I typically don’t recommend. They’re very… To put it under your tongue is it doesn’t taste good, it burns. So, what I typically work with is an oil based tincture and you just put it under your tongue for a couple of minutes, it gets absorbed in about 10 or 15 minutes and you see relief. You can also take in a gel cap, a soft gel and you say “Okay, I want 25 milligrams of CBD everyday to help me with inflammation, insomnia, pain whatever.” So, you take the pill and a lot of people like to do this just because they take it with their multivitamin or whatever medications are already taking and I advise people to take it with a fat source because that can extend the relief the effect of the CBD or the cannabis. And that’s another way to do it very easy you just put a pill.

Janice Bissex: [00:14:01] There are also topical ways of administering cannabis or CBD which I have seen amazing success and you just it’s a little balm or a suave or cream and you massage it wherever you hurt. So, if your knuckles hurt from arthritis or if your knee is painful or a shoulder or you have a muscle ache in the back. I have a young woman who is a runner and she said if “I don’t massage some CBD cream on my back I can’t run.” So it’s it’s pretty amazing so that’s another way that you can consume it and you can use a CBD cream or a cannabis cream it’s absorbed just through the epidermis so it doesn’t go into your blood. So, some people are worried about drug tests and that’s another thing CBD will not cause a positive drug test. Had that question a lot. THC is what they check for. Another way of administering CBD or cannabis is suppositories which are pretty effective for things like colon cancer. People who have severe menstrual cramps. A suppository gets the medicine really right where right where you need it and people have seen amazing results with that.

Mathea Ford: [00:15:21] So, that made me think a little bit about the Endocannabinoid System help I’m saying that right?

Janice Bissex: [00:15:27] You are. Excellent!

Mathea Ford: [00:15:29] Is it like our lymph nodes system or is it like a circulatory system or is it completely different?

Janice Bissex: [00:15:37] It’s completely different. It’s more of a neurotransmitter system. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Even though like the CBD, you’ve got these cannabinoids and we have receptors in our body in the CB1 receptors which is mostly what THC effects are in the brain which is why you get the high and the spinal cord and then the CB2 receptors which CBD can have an effect on on our immune cells in on our organs. So, that’s the difference there so when you take CBD you get more of a body not high but you get relief – body relief as opposed to THC giving you a little bit more of a head. You know it affects your head more. But you know another thing I just thought of is that people who have concussions very important CBD is a neuro protectant. In fact the U.S. government has a patent on CBD as a neuroprotectant and antioxidant. They got that patent in 2003 so they know that CVD is good for neuro protection. So anyone who has a traumatic brain injury, a concussion. My neighbor had an accident surfing in January. He was surfing and the board went way up and he thought he was clear so he took his hands off of his head and crack. He had a serious concussion so I went right over there I said you need to take this CBD and he did. He did. And so it’s important that people know that that is an option for brain injury on. In particular our veterans coming home. I mean they should absolutely be allowed to use cannabis and CBD.

Mathea Ford: [00:17:30] Yeah, that will be an interesting thing what the V.A. being a federal organization.

Janice Bissex: [00:17:35] Exactly! That is the challenge. So, really what I might hope is in the next couple of years I don’t know if it’ll be that soon that cannabis will lose its Schedule One designation. So, they in 1970, it was they put cannabis in the same category as heroin and said there’s no medical value and it has a high potential for abuse and made it a schedule one drug and it’s just it’s so not true and yet there it stays. All the researchers can’t is to the contrary and yet for some reason our lawmakers are not willing to you know take action to take it away from that Schedule 1 status which is really preventing a lot of people from getting relief if you’re in one of the 20 states that doesn’t allow medical marijuana and you know that it’s it’s illegal in your 80 years old and in terrible pain you’re not going to do that. So, I just really hope that we can make that happen.

Janice Bissex: [00:18:44] And part of that is working on the stigma because there is still a huge stigma and I’m not going to lie. Two years ago, I was kind of there. I didn’t know that about all the medical benefits and I was like you know people they just want to smoke and get high. You know it’s just so not true. I you know I was a little judgee you know about people who maybe turned to cannabis. I’m a dietitian. So, and now the more I learn the more I say I can’t believe that that we should we should be promoting this. This should be the first line defense against pain before going to the pharmaceuticals.

Mathea Ford: [00:19:23] So, what are some conditions that people use cannabis for?

Janice Bissex: [00:19:28] Pain, anxiety, insomnia. Those are three big ones. Also M.S., Inflammatory Bowel Disease, ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s. People have seen amazing results. I have a 22 year old friend here in town and he says that without cannabis, before cannabis he didn’t sleep through the night. He couldn’t go to college. He said I was in pain. I was had to be near a bathroom. It was awful. And now with cannabis because it’s an anti-spasmodic, it’s an antiinflammatory, he sleeps through the night and he’s now going to college. So, to me that right there that’s such a success story. I have some people with some clients with a Parkinson’s disease and I have this one gentleman who is just the sweetest man and he sends me a note about once every month or two and he says “Okay. Send me two more bottles of tincture” and he’ll say things like “I haven’t fallen in 43 days” which was not the case before he started taking it. It’s amazing. M.S people with M.S. It helps with with the muscle spasticity, migraines.

Mathea Ford: [00:20:50] Yeah migraines, let’s talk about migraines.

Janice Bissex: [00:20:52] Yeah! So, I’ve worked with a few people with migraines. One person who has just awful migraines almost daily. She tried just the CBD a few months ago and she said “yeah, you know I really didn’t see a lot of relief. Okay.” So, another client came and we did the CBD soft gels and this is something new that I read, the CBD suave. So, what she does is when she’s getting a migraine, she massages the topical suave right where she feels the pain whether it’s between her brows she gets it below her. Her eye sockets. So, she massages the CBD in there and then she waits a few minutes and then wherever the pain, the pain they say will then move as it doesn’t like where you’ve put that. So, it will move and then she massages it to where it moves and then one more time. And she said it can stop a migraines. Now is it gonna work for everybody? Nope. Does Cannabis work for everybody? Nope. But I’m thinking about 85 to 90 percent of people can find relief using CBD in cannabis for a lot of these conditions.

Mathea Ford: [00:22:10] Are there times you said this is not going to work for everybody but are there times in CBT or marijuana or cannabis is not appropriate for use in a person? I’m thinking pregnancy for sure probably.

Janice Bissex: [00:22:23] Right! Pregnancy and lactation even though you know there’s some evidence that CBD is not at all but I certainly wouldn’t recommend that. Not at all a problem when you’re breast feeding but for right now until more research is done I would say yes. Pregnancy and breast feeding two times. You know and you’d think that I would say not for anyone under 21 but that’s not true. That’s not true! We have so many stories of young children who had 200 seizures a day. You may have seen Sanjay Gupta the documentary called Weed. And Sanjay he was not a fan of medical cannabis or cannabis he thought this is not something that we should be using. It’s a slippery slope and then he did this documentary and he followed a little girl Charlotte Figi who was having 200 seizures a day. They gave her cannabis. And guess what? She started having a seizure week. It’s an amazing story so a lot of kids with epilepsy have been helped in different seizure disorders. I find that the most exciting research right now is with autism. I have read some pretty interesting studies and have heard some anecdotal evidence about using CBD with autism because I mean CBD is a neuro calming agent so if you can calm those you know the electric impulses in the brain and you can sort of calm that all down. They’ve seen an improvement in behaviour in children with autism. So, to me that’s very exciting and also Alzheimer’s disease. They’ve had some great results with Alzheimer’s. Some of the people when you know when you go through which I did with my aunt they go through different phases and sometimes they sort of reach out they they strike people they go through that sort of violent stage. And again the CBD and the cannabis have been shown to calm them and make them happier. You know isn’t that really what our elderly population deserves? I mean they deserve pain relief. They deserve to be to be happy in their older years so I’m just such a huge proponent of figuring out what we can do to help people as they age. To keep them you know keep them happy and give them relief from their pain.

Mathea Ford: [00:25:00] So you’ve mentioned some research a few times. Is there any specific research that shows about the effectiveness or where is research being done and kind of what direction is it going?

Janice Bissex: [00:25:12] I’ve got a lot of research studies on my website so people can go to JannabisWellness.com. It’s Cannabis with a J. Yeah Jannabis.com and I have a whole resources page so for each condition pain I’ve got about seven or eight resources for you know insomnia,for anxiety. So I would say people could go there. And like I said there’s not a lot of good research in this country and people keep using that as an excuse. Well, until we have you know peer reviewed you know studies we can’t recommend it. Well, we can’t do that because it’s federally illegal.

Mathea Ford: [00:25:56] Right and they can’t sponsor any studies.

Janice Bissex: [00:25:58] Right! So, if we can’t do the studies because it’s illegal and yet we have research from other parts. Israel in particular they’re just so far ahead of us researching this. So, until it’s not federally illegal we’re not going to be able to do the widespread research that we want to do and doctors will still say “well, we don’t have enough research so I can’t say that you should try this” and some go so far as to say my friend brought her 85 year old mom who is in a lot of pain and said “you know we’d like to try CBD.” Doctor said “I don’t think that’s a good idea.” Now, what if my dad’s doctor had said that? I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing now that’s for sure. And you know when you’re in your 80s if your doctor says “don’t do it.” Chances are you’re not going to do it. So, I find that to be very sad. I don’t blame the doctors for not understanding it because we weren’t trained in it unless like I said you’ve gone to med school in the last few years and you went to med school that is enlightened and willing to train you and teach you about this. They don’t know about it. So, now that’s a real that’s a real struggle.

Mathea Ford: [00:27:15] You mentioned a little bit about the ratio of the CBD to THC. What are some dosing recommendations? And does it vary based on a condition. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Janice Bissex: [00:27:26] It varies based on the person it varies based on the condition it varies based on someone’s endocannabinoid system. So, you might need two milligrams of let’s say CBD to find relief from your pain. And the next person might need 20. The next person might need 40. It’s so individual more so than any other medication that I’m aware of. It all has to do with your system and your endocannabinoid system and in your receptors and how many you have and which makes it difficult for me working with people to dose them. So, we usually start I always say “start low and go slow.” So, you start with a lower dose you might start with five milligrams and this I’m talking about CBD. If you’re starting cannabis with THC I would say you would start even lower like two milligrams of THC because if you do have a reaction and in you get high that’s that’s kind of scary for a lot of people. So, that’s something you would just start low and then you just work your way up and you know when I was just saying that it occurred to me I didn’t mention edibles when I told you about different ways that you can use cannabis. Edibles which would be any food that contains cannabis. It’s actually people say “oh you know they are they’re tricky and they are tricky” especially if they contain THC because an edible can take an hour or two to take effect. So, people take a little let’s say a five milligram dose of say a little chocolate square with THC five milligrams and they’ll take it and then 30-40 minutes later they say “Thanks, I have no relief from my pain. I’m going to take another one.” You know they wait a half hour and they’re like this is really ridiculous I’ll I’ll take another one and then all of a sudden at two hours bam they are they are high, they’re paranoid. So, and those are the effects that we want to avoid because once you’ve had that experience you’re not likely to go back and try it again. And cannabis is such a powerful tool that I hate to have people have that experience. So, for sure with edibles if you’re trying an edible for the first time you have to keep the THC very low and you have to wait two hours to see if it will take effect before you would take another another bite or another dose.

Mathea Ford: [00:29:59] Is there something with regards to how is absorbed. I know you mentioned it can take like an hour but if you have a pill or a edible when you get it is it gonna say five milligrams and you can expect to absorb 5 milligrams? Because we usually don’t absorb all.

Janice Bissex: [00:30:17] Exactly! Now, that’s variable as well. How much you’re actually going to absorb and when you take an edible if you five milligrams of THC in an edible it goes through your liver for processing. So, there’s an enzyme system, the CYP 450 system and you need that to break down your cannabis. If that system is being used to break down, let’s say alcohol or another drug it can impact how much you absorb and how quickly it’s broken down. And the other thing when it’s an edible, the THC is converted to a more potent form of THC when you take it as an edible. So, that’s the other thing. It’s a lot of experimentation to see really what dose and what ratio of cannabinoids works best. A lot of people can see relief with just the CBD. Some people need some THC whether it’s for migraines or I have a client with glioblastoma and she has tumours in her brain so she needs some THC because that’s where the action is. Another thing with the CBD is that some people say well you know the pharmaceutical companies are coming out with a CBD isolate or a THC isolate but to me to a lot of people the beauty of cannabis is the whole plant.

Janice Bissex: [00:31:49] So, there are there are 500 different compounds in cannabis. There are Terpenes that are responsible for the aroma and the taste. There are flavonoids which have health benefits, antioxidants and these cannabinoids. If you take a CBD deep isolate you’re just getting one compound whereas if you take a whole plant formula you’re getting all these others and they work synergistically. So, it would be like you know Mathea, you wouldn’t say to somebody you know broccoli is so good for you and winter squash they’re so good for you but here I’m going to give you a vitamin A capsule and that will be just as good. No! That’s not just as good you need all the other nutrients in the broccoli and they work they do work synergistically.

Mathea Ford: [00:32:39] I know we talked a little bit about practitioners kind of getting some questions. How do practitioners handle questions about cannabis? I mean I know we have probably our own personal beliefs but how do we help patients to understand it and what it can do? Where should people go to find more information?

Janice Bissex: [00:33:00] Good question. Because I think that we bring our own ideas into our counselling practice and if we have a stigma against cannabis, people will A) either not talk to you about it which that’s not good you want them to feel free to talk to you about these things and if you don’t know any… You can’t… I can’t expect my all my fellow dietitians to know what I know about cannabis. I did training. I mean I went through the Holistic Cannabis Academy which is an online training 35 modules with all the top experts in the field. So, I devoted you know almost a year to learning about this so I could do what I do. So, I would only expect dietitians to know that there are medical benefits. Here are some of the conditions that can help if you have someone with Crohn’s or ulcerative colitis or IBS or any of these conditions that I’ve talked about at least putting it out there and say you know we can learn about this. I can refer you to somebody who knows about this that can help you figure out what might help you.

Mathea Ford: [00:34:09] So can you talk a little bit about your training and why you felt the need to get certified versus just learning about it?

Janice Bissex: [00:34:17] Yeah! I mean I could have gone online and watched videos but I really felt that if I were going to do what I’m doing and counselling clients and speaking giving talks I’m doing grand rounds at my local hospital and a couple of weeks and I’m speaking at the annual meeting of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics in Washington D.C. in October. So, if I’m going to be “the expert” I really felt that I needed to be certified. And luckily at about the same time I was thinking about this to dietitians. Donna Shields and Laura Lagano they started this Holistic Cannabis Academy and they did all the work for pulling all the best speakers and developed a training program where I could learn what I needed to learn without going online. Because as we know a lot of the stuff online may or may not be 100 percent accurate. This way I know this is a good training program I’m going to learn when I need so that then I can that I can help others but I have to say I am still learning everyday. Everyday I’m learning more and more and I get more and more excited. I’ve never been this excited about anything I’ve done in my career. I just find this so fascinating.

Mathea Ford: [00:35:37] You’re right you can find information on who knows who wrote it or whatever but they’ve kind of got a filtered and educate process.

Janice Bissex: [00:35:46] And I’m happy to talk to anyone who has questions about the program. And I actually have a discount code for dietitians if they want to do the training.

Mathea Ford: [00:35:56] One question I always ask people is what’s your favorite food?

Janice Bissex: [00:36:01] I just had it actually. Avocado is probably my favorite. I just mashed that avocado on an English muffin and put a fried egg on top with a little bit of cheese. And that was that was my lunch. I also like dark chocolate. I like really good parmesan cheese. I know that that’s not one food but you know I have to say I could say my favorite food is CBD. That’s what I should’ve said.

Mathea Ford: [00:36:27] Nice.

Janice Bissex: [00:36:28] Yeah, I take I do take it every morning though I take it. I have my own line. Jannabis Wellness CBD Products and I have tinctures, soft gels and sauve and every morning I take a 10 milligram soft gel my breakfast and my multivitamin and some yeah that’s my favorite food. The heck with those avocados. I like my CBD soft gels.

Mathea Ford: [00:36:53] Well, I have taken CBD in the past and the biggest thing that I noticed in addition to some pain relief was focus and it’s kind of a weird thing. But it was like all the sudden I could stay at a task and complete the task without having the feeling, the urge to go do you know either other things on Facebook or whatever is that anecdotal to just me or is that?

Mathea Ford: [00:37:20] No, no, no I’ve heard that before. And also the anti anxiety benefit I have a lot of clients who have gone off their antianxiety and antidepressants taking CBD. Now, I don’t I definitely don’t recommend that people just stop cold turkey and switch to CBD. There’s a way that you want to do that and you need to you know work with your doctor and health care professional but you can absolutely taper off and substitute with CBD.

Mathea Ford: [00:37:52] Well great! Janice thank you so much for being on the podcast today. It was a pleasure to have you on the show.

Janice Bissex: [00:37:59] It was great great chatting with humor. Keep up with all your wonderful work and getting the word out there about what dietitians are doing.

Mathea Ford: [00:38:09] Well I know about our listeners today I’ve learned a lot about cannabis and probably have never even thought about half the things we talked about so hopefully it stirs some in the brain and if the listeners want to connect with you what’s the best way to do that.

Janice Bissex: [00:38:23] Best way just reach out via my website JannabisWellness.com. I love to hear from people. And yeah absolutely reach out.

Mathea Ford: [00:38:33] Well guys that’s been another great episode of the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast that is all about learning more so you can do more with nutrition in your life.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Android | Email | RSS

Nutrition Experts Podcast Episode 20 You Are Not A Source of Information with Ashley Koff, RDN

by Leave a Comment

Ashley Koff RD is your better health enabler. An award-winning nutrition expert, Koff knows better nutrition powers better health. During her two decades as a dietitian, Koff identified a BIG issue – the tools we are using to assess nutrition aren’t better, and that keeps people from getting better results. She’s created better nutrition tools, to help identify what your body really needs and how to get it in more often. The Better Nutrition Program is your one-stop shop for digital better nutrition tools. A practitioner first, Koff regularly shares her better nutrition message with millions via national media, social media, and speaking engagements. For more about Ashley or to check out her better nutrition tools visit www.TheBetterNutritionProgram.com

Mathea Ford: [00:00:27] Hi there! It’s Mathea. Welcome back to Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast featuring nutrition experts who are leading the way using food starts today right now with our next guest. It’s great to have Ashley Koff on the show today. Ashley welcome to Nutrition Experts. I’m excited to have you on the show and share your expertise with my tribe.

Ashley Koff: [00:00:48] Thank you so much for having me. I am so excited to be connected with you personally and learn your story. And this is going to be a lot of fun so, thank you.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:57] Yes! I know my listeners are going to love learning cause your tools are for both consumers and you find a lot of health care professionals. So let’s start with telling my listeners a little more about you and what you do.

Ashley Koff: [00:01:09] Sure. Well I never wanted to be a dietician. I wanted to be. I’m probably going to date myself here. I wanted to be Angela Bower from Who’s the Boss. I loved advertising. I thought it was amazing to go to work you know in New York City and come home to hunky Tony Danza was taking care of the house right? So that was my vision and I actually went to work in advertising. I worked like in New York City. My client was Kellogg’s and a couple of others. But I had my own health issues and I had been somebody who had tried my whole life to figured it in and out. Really for me it was to focus on my belly and I could never lose it, it was always with me. And every day I tried every diet and I tried to do things perfectly. You know I would follow Jenny Craig or Weight Watchers; I would go see a psychiatrist to psychologists, the fitness professionals like every different angle. And it wasn’t until I met an integrative gastroenterologist who helped me understand that it was all the antibiotics I had as a child that just made me get loaded. I wasn’t allergic or even intolerant to most foods. My digestive system just didn’t have what it needed to run better than I became so excited and passionate about what I call better nutrition. And I do feel we have to define better nutrition today that it’s giving your body what it needs to run better without giving it things at all irritated an overwhelming disrupted. And so I started in on this mission about 25 years ago to learn about nutrition. And where we are today and this is really it brings me to where I am. So, I’ve been a practitioner for about 20 years. The base of my practice was in Los Angeles. I got to a lot of celebrity were gone but we all know that their health issues are just the same as any of ours. As well as you know things like TV shows and stuff like that. But when I start to realize is there are a lot of people talking about nutrition today and when we any of us practice we know as a dietician the first thing we’re taught is to ask questions you have to learn about your patients. And today there’s so many different ways that people are getting in nutrients. They could be taking supplements, they could be eating whole foods or they could be eating food products that have fortifications or this whole area of like functional foods. And now there are creams and sprays and just all these different ways to get the nutrients. And I realized that we really don’t have a good system for assessing that. We have our RDAs but a lot of the nutrition assessment tools don’t assess what somebody is actually taking in most often. And so in the last three years I’ve worked very hard to create those tools. I’ve got about 50 of those tools everything from protein and magnesium to your trace minerals to water, fiber and I make those tools available to practitioners as well as individuals to help them just as a starting point. Whether you’re going to do genetic testing or lab testing or you know the whole nine yards or just a couple yards it is really important as we know to know from a foundational standpoint what your body is getting or what it’s not getting more often and that way we can get better outcomes. So I’m on a mission to change the way we assess nutrition in the country so we can get better outcomes.

Mathea Ford: [00:04:13] I think that’s a great explanation. Yeah you’re right. So many people with all the different fad diets and everything people are eliminating complete categories and nutrients. And it’s just really hard as a dietitian to make sure that you ask all the questions that are going to get down to what’s actually happening for that person so that you can actually help them.

Ashley Koff: [00:04:39] Exactly! And you know on the flip side you have things that are out there where somebody says “oh broccoli that’s a great source of protein” and it’s an oversimplification. Sure there are amino acids in there but how much broccoli would you need to eat? And we all know it’s not a complete source of protein. So, we need to do a little bit better with helping people understand but we also don’t want to make it too difficult. So I’m really trying to help connect the dots between the individual and their health care practitioners. And we all know as practitioners when we have more information about our patients. We do better. And definitely you know for doctors and even fitness professionals. People where it’s outside their scope and one of the areas that I said have done a lot of studying in and over the last 15 years for my nonprofit Ashley Koff Approved. I’ve evaluated over 150,000 products and it started off because I was very clear that not all multivitamins accrued are are the same.

Ashley Koff: [00:05:32] I want to make sure that we could that we had a way to say you know “hey! What are you actually taking in?” Because there’s a difference if you’re taking in 200 milligrams of calcium versus if you’re taking in 400 milligrams of calcium. So I’m trying to help people pull all that together.

Mathea Ford: [00:05:47] What types of tools do you see that consumers are using the most? Which of your tools?

Ashley Koff: [00:05:52] Sure! And you know I really looked at what tools already exist out there and why don’t I think that they’re helpful? So, for example there are a lot of different whether somebody is writing down and I think through journaling is still be the best thing you can do. So I created a food journal a digital one and a hard copy one. But then I turned around and said “Yeah! but These apps are having people count a lot of calories and we need to know what those calories are.” And so one thing that I created was a nutrition plan to help people understand where your different calories come from is going to make a difference. So we all know that 150 calories if it’s all from carbohydrate is going to impact your body different than if it’s 30 percent carbs, 30 percent fat, 30 percent protein and I’m just… Those are arbitrary therapies right? And so because that’s not even add to a hundred. Anyway. We all know what I mean. Right? And so when I was really focused on statistics. So, for example 70 percent of women, 80 percent of men are not meeting their RDA for magnesium. And I said “Well, that’s an interesting thing.” You know I could go on Dr. Oz and I do or I could go on the local news or I could go on you know wherever I’m going to go and talk to healthcare practitioners and say “hey! We need to get more magnesium because magnesium turns off that stress response and that’s so important for digestion and all these other things.” But they need to then turn around and have advice and I don’t want to just turn around and say “So, everybody needs a magnesium supplement. What about just eating some chocolate? What if you change your milk chocolate to dark chocolate you know or what have you learned that when you actually eat a whole grain instead of white flour you increase your magnesium intake by several grams. And so one of the ones that people are using very often and in particular psychologists and also my practitioners that are dealing with people with sleep, weight loss, anxiety. So you can start to see why this one is really popular. They’re using that magnesium tool. Now what I did was I had to treat you know there are different ways and I think the way you said it is so smart is that people don’t necessarily think about dietitians as having specialties. My specialty is definitely in digestive health because I know that we are not what we eat; We are what we digest and absorb. And I believe that if your digestion is not working better then you can’t get any health outcome that you’re looking for. And so I focus even on that part and so what I did when I created the tools was I also put them into packages. So you have your digestive health package, your heart health package, you have your kids package, your hormone health package and us dietitians if we look behind the scene, you’ll see a lot of redundancy behind all of them right? But the way that people consume information today or think about their own health they’re not thinking about their overall body as much as they’re thinking about specifically what they’re trying to address. So I focus on the tools on that part.

Mathea Ford: [00:08:43] I personally struggle with migraines and I use magnesium and try to make sure I’m consistently getting a decent amount of magnesium because that helps with that condition for me at least. I can see how that’s a popular one and I also see people do tend to have this focus on individual nutrients. But how do you help your clients or your consumers to have kind of a better overall diet? Because really I think that’s where some of we start focusing on one nutrient and then we forget about other ones. So, how do you help them to build a more well-rounded diet that’s good for them?

Ashley Koff: [00:09:23] Yeah! You are so spot on. Within the tool, the reason these tools are unique literally if they existed I would just be using them instead of having it create them because it’s not a lucrative business to create and to create all these tools and make them work. Maybe someday but it certainly is it right now. And so what I looked at is so every tool goes through what foods could you be getting a nutrient from. Then, also are there any that might interfere with the absorption of those in or conflict with the absorption and how much of those foods do you need to be getting into your RDA? And then I go into the supplements phase and I also go into a space about you and your health. And so for example, when I’m asking and the other nutrients base and the magnesium evaluation and I focus as much on calcium. Because one of the reasons that we have an issue not only are people not getting in their RDA for magnesium, we have people who rightfully so has listened to a lot of you know health care practitioners and really focusing on calcium but a lot of people have turned to supplemental calcium instead of calcium rich food and as a result they’ve been throwing out of. I call it almost it’s a conditional deficiency or conditional challenge. The more calcium you get in the more magnesium you need because calcium I like to make a bicep calcium as a muscle contracter and magnesium is a muscle relaxer. So, I was actually just talking to a woman yesterday and she switched to she’s getting an almond milk. She was not having any dairy but she was also not having the almond milk before. Well, now she’s getting and you know and it says on the package 50 percent more calcium than dairy milk. So, she’s actually getting in a lot of calcium and had not adjusted her calcium supplement or magnesium intake. So your point is if we are going to focus on nutrients we better focus on nutrients overall. But I always start people a step back which is thinking about what is your overall objective. So it’s the digestive evaluation or with heart health. What I try to focus on and again behind the scenes of any dietitians looking at this you’re going to know “Oh! This is just an assessment for better nutrition. What are your carb? Where are your carbohydrates coming from? What kinds of proteins are you taking in? You know what healthy fats are you getting in? Are you getting into too much of an unhealthy less healthy fats? What are you doing from a water intake?” You know those kinds of things I’m always asking those questions so that we can make sure that somebody doesn’t think that their solution is just one nutrient. But I think your question is really such an important one and it’s a challenge to a lot of us nutrition professionals. So, I look at it as two things. One I’m not going to change the fact that people are doing these bad diets. So for example I just did a webinar on If You Are Doing a Ketogenic Diet, Here Are The Things You Have To Do because your body still needs certain nutrients. So, if you’re skipping which blows my mind. But people are doing it and it’s not for me to judge. But if you’re skipping a lot of vegetables because of their carbohydrate content then you need to make sure that you are getting those in. And so I went through in my opinion what are better sources. You know whether it’s a powder that you’re adding or whether it’s you know in your malt tea or these kinds of things on as a way to make sure that you’re not missing out on those core nutrients. And then we also know we have patients who sometimes are just challenged because of something that’s going on to get something in. And so then this is a good way to help them around it. So, I always just come back to we know what better nutrition is and isn’t. And that’s in every package that I have of tools, there’s always the better nutrition plan which explains why better nutrition looks like you know which is a balance of nutrients and trying to reduce your intake of things that could be irritating.I mean when we just take it too much it’s overwhelming to the system but really great question.

Mathea Ford: [00:13:11] That kind of leads me a little bit to think about where are consumers looking for information on healthier diet? So, they’re not necessarily going “I need a better health, need better nutrition assessment searching for that but where are they looking for information on a healthier diet? And then part two, how can are these be part of that discussion?

Ashley Koff: [00:13:35] Oh! This is my favorite. So remember I told you I want to be Angela Bower so I started I love marketing. So, please if you ever want marketing help that is something that I love to talk about and you a lot of talking to probably because I enjoy it. First and foremost nobody wants better nutrition. Let me be super clear. It is the name of my company. Nobody wants it. So we all want better health and the outcome is what we want. And so you have to from a marketing standpoint be very clear that nutrition and in particular better nutrition and your better nutrition, what your body needs is the vehicle, a vehicle, a very dominant vehicle to getting better health. So in your messaging as a dietitian if you focus in on I see this all the time that your deliverable is nutrition, is better nutrition, you will improve someone’s nutrition, you will help them with this nutrition wise. You are actually not going to engage them because nobody wants it. In reality, if we could just fix it. Some people are like “hey! If I never had to eat any food but I could be healthy, I’d be happy. You know I’m a total foodie that would be a disaster to me. But if I could just eat whatever I wanted to eat and be healthy which is what we thought probably for many people up until probably like in the 80s and 90s then it was like an era like oh oh we actually do have to pay attention and oh by the way there is something better nutrition.” So my one of my kind of emerging part one and part 2. But one of my strongest recommendations in any of your communications is to think about what does the person who you want to talk to to have a conversation. How do they express better health? So, is it that their energy is crashing. Is it that their skin looks dull and dry or is it that their bellies bloated no matter that they just finished a marathon or feel like they eat very well like what’s the thing that day or is it that they really care about the health of someone else and have concerns and so they’re stressed about it and where we’re going to interact. So, in today’s world we’re really lucky because we have a lot of tools that we can use from a marketing standpoint to help us like with quizes. I think I was telling you Mathea that I’m really excited on when you talk about like where people are looking. They are looking for nutrition so they’re looking for health answers and guidance everywhere. And as a result, companies are all and people and everybody is talking everywhere I even use the term infobesity. We just we have too much information and it’s not even beneficial right? It actually can like stop us. Where people are looking, as a dietitian I would say so they’re looking everywhere so what you need to understand is it have them not just looked to you but invest in you and want to have a relationship with you. You have to be very clear about the fact that your training and your experience and what your brand is allows them to actually get the better health results that they’re seeking. And so that’s why I’ve made my tools available in a shared partnership for dietitians. I do a different program even for dieticians than I do for you know people who are not don’t have our license you know whether it’s a health coach or whether it’s a fitness professional or someone but you need to make sure that you can say to them I have a tool kit that’s going to help you get this better results and then what you also want to do is focus in on what are all the points in the day that somebody can talk to them. So one of the ones that most recently came to me I know everybody is on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter but I also realize that’s a place of massive infobesity. I mean, I actually as a dietitian get upset sometimes being on those platforms because I noticed myself I sort of think about what I had tea. I know what to do for myself right? and So I’m like “So, if this is the amount of information and what I’m looking at is even making me feel like I might have a problem or some thing I need to address. Imagine what it’s doing for the person who you know doesn’t have the training and does have a problem you address.” So I’ll look for places where people are not talking as much about it. And so one of the areas for me that’s recently opened up we’re talking about this is Alexa and it’s actually pointed out to me. I was not using Alexa. Alexa didn’t tell me this that the mind behind Alexa told me that there was not really anyone offering any nutrition tips there and that blew my mind. You know are you kidding me? People have Alexa around them all the time and are used to Alexa telling them what to do or what they need to know. So, that’s an area that I’ve gone into with my better nutrition skill. People can open that skill and ask a nutrition question. And I invite other professionals too if they have questions and answers and things they want to promote on to be a part of my better nutrition skills. You’re listening and acts of interest, please reach out to me. And I think that that’s a great way to do something that’s different than what exists out there and maybe where everybody is already talking about something about nutrition.

Mathea Ford: [00:18:30] That is a great explanation. And I think it’s a paradigm shift for dietitians because we really do think about things as nutrition and kind of the features or how it works. And you just made me think about like diabetics don’t want to count carbs but they want better blood sugar. So, if getting better blood sugar means better nutrition by counting carbs you’re not going to tell him “Hey! I’m going to help you learn to count carbs. I’m going to help you get better blood sugar.

Ashley Koff: [00:19:04] And I’m going to say that it’s delicious easy. Like that’s how you know I mean.

Mathea Ford: [00:19:08] Yeah yeah yeah yeah. That type of thing. So, with your Alexa’s skill is that something we just ask Alexa? “Hey Alexa! Hey, activate the better nutrition skill or?

Ashley Koff: [00:19:20] Exactly! There, you can open My Better Nutrition Skills you just say “Alexa, open My Better Nutrition Skill!” And the first time she’ll ask do you want Daily Tips, do you want to ask questions. You can say you want to do both. You can you know and you can set that up. And then we also have a cool function there where I will send you more information via a web link. And so if you at any point want more information because as we all know just like Twitter, 140 characters specially I am Ashley Koff RD. I am an overspeaker or an overshare so I’m not good, I can’t do it in this short amount of time. You know I made things very short for Alexa. So, I say in there “If you want more tips and resources than you can just provide your phone number the one time.” And then we’ll be able to send you stop by a web. As a practitioner if you have something that you want to submit to me as a question and I’m happy to promote you it does not need to be that it’s you know that it’s going back to it’s not about Ashley Koff on this part it’s about My Better Nutrition Skill in which should be a lot of people talking about better nutrition. And likewise The Better Nutrition Program so then people would just e-mail me through The Better Nutrition Program to submit any content that they’re… and to talk to me about submitting content for it.

Mathea Ford: [00:20:34] We’re thinking about guiding people to healthier choices and working with consumers. How do we guide them to get these better choices as dietitians either on a large platform like Facebook or Twitter or just individually one on one? Do you have any thoughts on that?

Ashley Koff: [00:20:55] Yes! And I actually have done a couple of webinars. They are available for free. And I have engaged other people who are better at things like online marketing. And for me the real game changer was I did not want. I was thinking about what I needed to do on Facebook what I needed to do on YouTube or even just bringing people to my Web site. I was not thinking about how do I actually helped someone get from me what they’re looking for and that’s embarrassing to admit but I’m comfortable in admitting it. And the reason I admit it is I was trained as a dietitian. I was not trained as a salesperson for products. Although that’s kind of like because I did the marketing stuff before. But you know when I became a dietitian right? And the second part about it is the only people who are getting really rich off of Facebook or Twitter are Facebook and Instagram which are now owned by Facebook and Twitter and Google you know that kind of a thing. And so giving them money started to say to me look so what’s the ROI? And for me it’s not just the return on investment from a dollar standpoint but we are businesses. It’s really Return on Impact. So I think as dietitians we got into this business because we want to impact the health of individuals and the health of the country. And so I need to know when I’m doing something but what I am doing is going to have impact. And so really big change for me was actually to learn about tools that could help me make my messaging more effective and then also could aggregate it in a way that I knew who I was talking to. And that’s very different today that we’re able to do that online or through social marketing or that case. So, I also have a free guide that connects you to any of the resources that I have through this and I use it through elite digits so people can text. And we’ll put this in the show notes but new trip is one two three the number 4 4 2 2 2 and I’ll remind that at the end but in order when doing that in there I’ll show you what was probably the biggest game changer for me. So, I mentioned I’ve been doing this for 20 years. I was doing it first in a little bit in New York and then out in LA. I’ve had a lot of exposure through meet the media whether it’s TV shows, magazines, online podcasts you know all these different pieces but I didn’t have a way to know who I was reaching. And then also how to connect them to specifically what they wanted to get from me and to my point in the last conversation, we have to make sure that we are always talking to them about what they can get for me. It’s not just like “oh it’s high value blah blah blah.” No no. It is what they need. Right? Because we are as dietitians we are return on impact. We want to have that impact. And so there I learned that way more important than putting my Facebook icon on something are way more important than even having the lower third of a TV show have my name spelled correctly or even my RD because we all know that part is like they always leave the RD off or call me a nutritionist. So even more important than any and even having my website up there is I have a tool and I use this digital tool and there are other versions of it etc. It’s not expensive and I use it to give people a guide that has more information they can text to get it where they can email me for it. And when they get that then they come in to me and I know that they got it from seeing me on that TV segment or from a specific Facebook post or you know that kind of a thing. So when I now connect with them I can say legitimately “hey Mathea! So great that you reached out for my magnesium evaluation. I’m excited to have you see where you’re getting magnesium and what’s already better. Yey! Keep doing that and what could be better. And what did you think about the segment? Like I showed you a couple of ideas for chocolate in there. Do someone likes chocolate and then suddenly we have an it’s just like you were in my office right and we can handle all of that through email and through my connection with you because I know where the ends meet. So I think it’s kind of it’s going to be essential for dietitians to not just do something like everybody says like “oh! I want to go on TV.” Not everybody people want to go on TV or someone wants to have a podcast or they want to you know “oh! I need to do a SEO or Google Ads or any of that stuff” but don’t do any of that! Those are great to generate leads. But if you don’t know where you’re taking someone on a journey and another part in this very humble lines are either list of about I think we’re at 45 thousand and roughly. And I have done nothing with my list. I just had this list. Ever had it for over a period of time. And when I started looking at the list I was like “Well, I don’t know where any of these people.” What do you know? I let go.

Ashley Koff: [00:25:38] I sent an e-mail to everybody and said “hey! I haven’t really. You know I’ve been sending my newsletter. Doing all these stuff but I don’t really know like.. So these are the things I offer. Are you looking for it? And if you’re not looking for it just let me know because who wants an inbox full like Ashley? like if it’s not useful. Right?” And so we had about 11,000 of that 45,000 go away. And if anyone like focuses on their business may think “Oh my gosh! She went from you know 45,000 to 34,000.” Well let me tell you the 34,000 that I have now are the engagement is 16 times more significant. I’ve looked at these numbers and getting fun things. Like people responding the stuff saying like “hey!” You know do you want Like exactly what I wanted from them like “hey! You asked me to tell you what’s better. Here’s what’s going on that’s better. Hey! I really wish you would create this. Hey! Is there a place that I could get you know such and such?” And so I think you have to be a little bit disruptive or to use your phrase appreciate that there is a paradigm shift and just doing marketing and learning to do marketing the way that all of these like coaches and courses and programs and all that stuff that is not going to cut it. You need to go back to what we do as dietitians that is totally unique from what other people do and that is we cultivate relationships with people to help them get healthier powered by improving their nutrition and that has to be what you do in wherever you choose to connect with it. So it’s a long very creechy answer but hopefully it explains what I’m doing and how I’m doing it a little bit differently.

Mathea Ford: [00:27:19] That was just Golden! I do exactly what you’re talking about and it’s so great when people reply to me and tell me “thank you for the encouragement. Thank you for the recipe. You know this is what I’ve done. This is what’s changed. This is what I need.” And you know that youre making a difference to them. Then, I love that. We kind of think sometimes that marketing is a quote unquote dirty word cause it seems like Dr. Oz and everything is all marketing. But what they’re doing if you look at what they’re doing, you can take that and do it in your own way. So, like you talked about in the beginning what is the outcome they want. They want better skin. Dr. Oz Says here’s a cream for that. You know your outcome is this. So…

Ashley Koff: [00:28:09] I love to discuss this. So, first of all, like I really admire him. I think I have a good relationship with him. So, he is not show like there is a whole show there’s a machine behind it but your point you can, we can all learn. And I also encourage anyone to rather than say like “hey! Like, Oh gosh he just does marketing or he just says ‘hey there’s a cream for that.'” First of all, if happened to be in a place where you’re engaged with a show in any capacity. You do not have to do what they say. So, I repeatedly… They always laugh like I’m so engaged with scripts. I will say you know what? “But I am not going to say that.” Like there was a time they were trying to get me to talk about wine as being like okay for an I can’t remember what it was you know just because it was like “oh! Let’s just tell people a little bit of wine” you know and they weren’t wrong but I felt that it was wrong to let you know it was a stretch to say on that premise. So I actually said to him I was like “if you want to say that, you can say that. But as a dietitian I would never say it.” He is like “I’m not going to say that!” And so he’s like he turned to people almost like “Why is the script?” So, just the same way that we have to stand up to doctors in the hospital make sure they hear us like we need to do that. You know that’s it. And then the other thing that they do that I think is a great thing for us to learn from it is they do teasers. And so we’re some of the most egregious information comes is actually not in the show but it’s you know where people can perceive like “oh! He’s just saying or he’s doing that.” No, no, no he is doing that to get somebody to tune in. And so I think what you want to be careful. What we as a dietitians want to be careful about is there is a marketing technique called clickbait where you can write any headline and get somebody to click on it but you better hold yourself accountable. If your name is going to be associated with the clickbait you better be okay with me thinking that about you. And I think like that whether it’s you know the food babe, whether it’s Dr. Oz, whether it’s on and I could look outside of our space you know into other area as in any type of advertising and marketing. You really need to make sure that you’re okay with those pieces because when you substantively read somebody’s book or you watch their show or you get their whole explanation, they’re not just recommending a cream for your skin. Right? But what you thought was they were recommending you cream for their skin because they’re clickbait or they’re teaser. So, one of the things about dietitians is I think we have to be we can do better and really help people and lead the way by having these. We have these ways to help people understand that we are going to get them results. And explain it’s going to be deliciously easy and we’re going to give you those tools or we’re gonna show you exactly how to do it but we’re not going to tell you something that actually isn’t true. And that’s a really good place we only can know that for ourselves what that barometer like what’s true or not is.

Mathea Ford: [00:30:57] Well, I appreciate you mentioning that because I love like Ryan Seacrest on American Idol you know the promo right before they go to commercial. We’re going to tell you who won after the commercial. So you know how are we going to… How can we put out things that are engaging our audience that they’re interested in that they’re seeing in the media? But you’re right we have to be true to ourselves so we’re not going to say 10 ways you’re going to lose 10 pounds this week but we might say 10 ways you can have a better body, a better health in a week and that is a true statement. You know you can switch what you’re eating or whatever but lovely, I love talking about marketing so. You have any more little tips on marketing or?

Ashley Koff: [00:31:48] Oh my gosh! I have like I have like four webinars, three quick guides like all of these.

Mathea Ford: [00:31:54] Just share a couple quick things that might help and then we’ll go on.

Ashley Koff: [00:31:59] One, two things about email communications. I spent a long time whether it’s newsletters or the e-mails I send to people you also remember. Now I know like “hey! If you downloaded my Magnesium Guide where they text Calm123 to 44222 they get the Magnesium Guide. I actually tell people when they get that you are going to get four e-mails from me. They are. Because I want to make sure that you actually use this guide right? And use it so that you get better results. So, if you don’t want those four e-mails, if it works for you to get the guide and you’re off and running then just make sure put me in your job like just like anything else from this e-mail and I actually say that up front first thing in my e-mail and then, I go through and I talk about in my e-mail just one thing. So, one of the things that we as dietitians are not good at and one of the things that we can be better and I will certainly say this “Ashley Koff RD is not good at is I like to tell people a lot of things that they can do. You just asked me you said ‘Com’on! Give us more tips!’ Right?” As if like the one tip for like just focusing on a health outcome as opposed to a nutrition one isn’t like I know that we just knew every one of your business epicly forward and so I shouldn’t even give you… I shouldn’t have been giving you another tip because what I learned is just one call the action. One tip and what should they do with it. However, to your point about we’re not going to tell somebody ten days and all that stuff. What I do at the end is I do tease them. So, I’ll say “So now, you learned about magnesium and my next e-mail. I’m going to give you three of my favorite ways to get magnesium in and so then I said “make sure you’re looking for that.” In another e-mail I might say “So, remember there is one thing that will no matter even if you’re getting the right amount of magnesium and there’s one thing that’s still going to keep your body from turning off the stress response. I promise you that it is the highest open rate that I have of any e-mail. Everybody wants to understand because part of what I presented to you is it’s actually not that you need to deal with your stress. Of course I want people dealing with their stress but I’ve shown you that if your body has what it needs to turn off the stress response you are going to do it better. Everybody wants to know both what can I do to turn off the stress response i.e. magnesium. And number two, what would keep me from having it be effective even if I get the magnesium right. So, I think that the other tip on this piece is there is a way of communicating with people. And you know if we go back to SOAP notes. SOAP notes we all learn that if you are like me I couldn’t wait to be done with them like SOAP notes are so stupid. They like I sit here and write all these things I write this beautiful note in because back in the day I was writing them because I am that old. Yeah! I write it in my… You know I had to learn, I had to get it approved by my internship director then I could even put it into the church. And by that point I’m like “really? Who’s even reading it? And blah blah…” And the way the doctors would even say to me “oh my gosh! I’m just looking at your pee. Right?” Like I’m just going breathe through this. However, we know that when we did SOAP notes and when we learned to do it our thought process and also what somebody who was reviewing that could get was an insight into our thought process and we took them along the way. And so there is a thought process for a more effective emails that can elevate your communication to a way that actually gets a call to action. And I had to learn this. So, things I think that’s really valuable from a marketing standpoint is to turn around and say and actually look at people who are doing companies that are doing the best marketing. What is making you actually purchase? What do you subscribe to? What are you looking forward to? What e-mails do you always open? And then think about. Now, I’m a dietitian. What like I want to understand what’s there SOAP note in there? What was their process? Like did they come to me from a pain point? Did they come to me? And when you look at that part you can start to say “Okay, now I put it in; I insert my information where I can follow the flow or the tip like so as I said one of them is just being where other people aren’t. I am totally tired of being where everybody is. But even within Facebook, I do more now in my groups and I interact with more of you in groups. That’s how we met then I do. I’m not just sitting there doing Facebook posts like that’s I’m like “Uhuh! I’m not going to spend my time on that part” or if I do do a Facebook post or even if I’m invited to you know these to do a sponsored post of course I’m going to note that that’s a sponsored post. But if I’m doing that, then I got to make sure there is a call to action in there and then I’m actually giving somebody something that can have for me return on impact.

Mathea Ford: [00:36:43] Well, I’ll just tell everybody I’ll remind them most people today probably haven’t heard about SOAP notes unless they’re 20 years old dietitians like us. So it’s subjective, objective. So subjective is like what you talk to the patient about and what they told you. And then objective is like your labs and all the stuff you can find in the chart and an assessment is what you think. So, it be your nutrition care plan or whatever nutrition. What is it called?

Ashley Koff: [00:37:12] Assessment. Right?

Mathea Ford: [00:37:12] Yeah! You have like your nutrition diagnosis statement.

Ashley Koff: [00:37:15] Yes.

Mathea Ford: [00:37:17] And then your P is your plan. So, for those of you are like “What in the heck is the SOAP note? That is what it is. Yes. And it was how we thought about things and yeah it’s one of the most detailed notes in the chart. Yeah.

Ashley Koff: [00:37:31] It’s like you weren’t passing to get your RD if you didn’t do a good SOAP note in any capacity but you know I think it’s… So, anyway I think that you know for us from a marketing standpoint. First of all, what you are doing is so awesome because by bringing in people. So, people listening right now might be like “okay, I don’t even want to listen to a dietitian that was on Dr. Oz.” And you know what? If you think that I’m good with that. Just take from me what I said about the difference in the communication or somebody else might say she talks really fast. I don’t get what she’s talking about but then the next expert that you have on is going to be somebody that they can really relate to. Right? And so I think that there is one of the great things about today is there are a lot of different people for us to interact with. I learned so much. I learned from you today. I learned so much from how dietitians, different dietitians are doing their business that I just love that you’re putting it together all into a podcast that I can listen to and it gets me very excited. So thank you.

Mathea Ford: [00:38:29] Well, thank you. What do you think is next in like nutrition or kind of what we’ve been talking about marketing nutrition and marketing and how do you see that affecting health care? So, how does it affect what we’re doing in the next five 10 years?

Ashley Koff: [00:38:45] You know the infoobesity piece to me runs pretty like that concerns me a lot. And so unfortunately or fortunately what’s next is so much money and effort and attention to this space which is awesome. Like it was definitely not the case when you and I got started. But it’s also very concerning because on when everybody’s trying something and when brands it’s hard enough to deal with all the new food products and supplements that all have publicists. But now all these health care companies have publicists. So, I think that that’s a hard thing for us. One of the great things is we are and we’re not like this isn’t light off into the future we’re moments away from at home or in person testing so that you can know things right whether it’s with your mobile device or whether it’s with strips you know or testing you know even just the adventure of being able to prick your finger and see your blood sugar.

Ashley Koff: [00:39:42] But because we’re able to see these things in the moment. We can actually, we as dietitians can have a much more immediate impact with people because just even doing a virtual consult. So, I’m to a virtual practice when I was in L.A. Gosh! About probably even like about 10 years ago I’m starting at maybe like eight years ago. And one of the great things was I would open with “So, it’s fun that we’re both in Los Angeles and I want to tell you that you already if you take nothing else away from our consult today. You already are healthier.” And they would go. “What is she talking about? Is this her way of like charging a lot and like not doing anything?” And you go so “you did not have to get into your car and deal with stress of getting to my office. Traffic, Parking spending money. So I think about like I’ve already shown you how you could invest your time better. Now you’re in your kitchen. We can have a focused discussion about what you do in your kitchen or what’s in your kitchen or we can literally have you now with your phone. I literally will have people go over to their supplement cupboard or whatever and show me what it is that they actually have right? Or take a screenshot of it and show me. And so, we’re able to move things into a much more personalized immediate response. Because of that, what we also know is the role of the dietitian has never been more important because what if you understand this key piece? If you understand that you are not a source of information. I want to be really clear when I say that. You are not a source of information. You need to be a partner. A vehicle, is tool for somebody to use to get better results. So if you count yourself as a source of information they are going to compare you to all other sources of information. But if you are a tool an unexceptional tool and a better tool and one that’s worthy of investment and one that can be with them when they need you and one that has certain skills. You know any of these things. Wow!like that’s different. And it also allows you to be a tool for other practitioners. So, as a doctor you can turn. A doctor to turn around and say “oh! Literally I might not know certain things about nutrition but I do this for one doctor in particular. So, he actually knows that we have times where we have built into a calendar where we Skype in his office and go through certain patients. He has a series of patients he once asked me nutrition questions about and we go through all of those. And he pays me my hourly rates and sometimes it’s four hours because he has a lot of patients with nutrition questions. So if you mold yourself to being and focus on being where I know you actually are and you aren’t just “Hey! I am someone with information. So, if you tell me that cinnamon is a source of antioxidants then shame on you because it for thinking that you’re going to have a business that’s different than Google and Google gets to how people a lot of information and so you’re not going to compete with Google and you’re probably not going to compete with the person who has is selling cinnamon because they have a lot more invested in about that part. So, I think that’s you know where we’re going is this amazing space for us as dietitians if we position ourselves properly and we’re poised to shift our business model or are capable of shifting our business models to be ones that meet that you know today’s consumer and today’s practitioner where they are as well as tomorrows.

Mathea Ford: [00:43:15] That was great! I love it. I like the idea of thinking of yourself more as a filter or a focus instead of a source of information. Because you’re right they can get it from a lot of people and if you don’t have that know I can trust with them. They’re not necessarily going to believe you over Dr Google so.

Ashley Koff: [00:43:35] Exactly!

Mathea Ford: [00:43:37] Okay, Ashley, my fun question: What’s your favorite food?

Ashley Koff: [00:43:40] Yeah! I could chocolate but the thing is like I’m like so I love broccoli. It sauteed in olive oil with some garlic and a pinch of sea salt and I probably love it more than I love chocolate. But if you told me I could never have chocolate again I’d probably be more like rebellious than if you told me I could never have broccoli again. So there goes the issue of green vegetables. Yeah! Okay that’s what I’m going to say!

Mathea Ford: [00:44:07] Okay. Alright Ashley thank you so much for being on the podcast today. It was a pleasure to have you on the show. I know my listeners have learned a lot about not only your Better Nutrition products but just that paradigm shift that different thinking about nutrition and marketing. So, if listeners want to connect with you what’s the best way to do that?

Ashley Koff: [00:44:30] I invite you to… Depends on what you want to connect with me for. If you want to connect with me because you’ve got nutrition questions open My Better Nutrition skill on Alexa and go to town right? If you want to connect with me about being a Better Nutrition affiliate, a Better Nutrition provider, hop over over to the Better Nutrition Program and sign up to be an affiliate. It’s a 50/50 financial split and it gives you access to all of my tools for your…. For anyone that you’re working with and also for yourself. And then if you have questions for me you can find in the usual spots. But probably the easiest thing to do is to just send me an email directly. ImetAshleyKoffApproved@gmail.com. And you know just give thought to what you’re emailing me about so that hopefully we can connect and I can be helpful to you.

Mathea Ford: [00:45:16] Do you want to remind them about the lead digits?

Ashley Koff: [00:45:19] Yes. Thank you so much. So, if you are interested in some of the nutrition tools, the marketing tips that I was talking about for building your better nutrition business. You want to text NutraBiz123 to 44222. And next Nutra like nutrition’s so NUTRABIZ123 to 44222. If you want Calcium, if you want to know about your magnesium and then text Calm123 also to 44222 and you can do both. You’ll just get the e-mails from me.

Mathea Ford: [00:45:52] Okay, well guys this has been another great episode of the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast that is all about learning more so you can do more with nutrition in your life.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Android | Email | RSS