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Nutrition Experts Podcast Episode 28 Functional Nutrition And Healthy Guts with Sara Korzeniewski, RDN

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Sara is a registered dietitian, certified LEAP therapist, and functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner.  She suffered with hormone and digestive symptoms for years with little recommendations for relief.  Being in the wellness field she knew there had to be more going on and was determined to find a solution.  She started studying functional medical nutrition therapy and through functional lab work, nutrition, and lifestyle was finally able to find a long term answers to her symptoms.  Now she helps busy women dig to the root cause of their health issues.  Using proper testing, science based education, and lots of support, she empowers women to take back their health and gain back energy and vitality!

Free gift/lead magnet:
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Mathea Ford: [00:00:26] Hi there! It’s Mathea. Welcome back to the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast featuring nutrition experts who are leading the way using food starts today, right now with our next guest. It’s great to have Sara Korzeniewski on the show today. Welcome to Nutrition Experts. I’m excited to have you on the show and share your expertise with my tribe. So, Sara tell my listeners a little bit more about you and what you do.

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:00:56] So, I am a Registered Dietitian. I’ve been a Registered Dietitian for about 13 years now. I’m also a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner as well as a certified LEAP therapist. So, I help busy women dealing with hormone imbalances, digestive issues kind of get things back on track. I don’t just treat symptoms but really help clients get to the root of their symptoms. I’m all about you know getting to the root cause and not just managing symptoms, you’re trying to cover them up. I use functional lab work to find hidden internal stressors and dysfunctions to really help provide clients with resources and information to be able to rebuild their home.

Mathea Ford: [00:01:39] Okay. Can You talk a little bit more about your credential as a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner? And why would a dietitian want or need that additional training?

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:01:49] Sure. So, you know as a registered dietitian you know going through school you know we get a lot of the conventional training and you definitely get a lot of resources to talk to clients about food. But as I was really working through my practice come to the realization that food is just one piece of kind of the health puzzle and didn’t really want to just have people come to me and say “Okay. Well, tell me how to eat?” And there’s just I think such a need out there for supporting women in getting to the root cause of their symptoms. I dealt with it a lot myself. You know I think a lot of people become nutritionists or become dietitians or health coaches because you know they’ve dealt with maybe a health concern themselves. And so then they become you know super interested in it. Well for me it was kind of the opposite. So, you know I had been interested in nutrition from a very young age you know since the seventh grade and became a dietitian and you know like a lot of people started out in the clinical setting and wasn’t super fulfilled in that. About halfway through my career kind of decided and learned a lot more about Functional Nutrition and Functional Medicine and kind of realized there was a lot more information out there than really what I had been taught. So, started to do a lot more digging on my own a lot more reading, a lot more research and started to kind of realize that I was actually having symptoms that weren’t normal and that there was probably a deeper reason for that. And so started to get into the functional realm world and came across the FDN program and what the FDN program you know they really teach you not just you know about nutrition but really about lifestyle as well and also being able to use functional lab work to help people get to the root of their health concerns because you know we don’t diagnose, we don’t treat diseases but we really help people look for areas of opportunity for healing and that’s exactly what I was looking for. So, I was able to do some some lab work on my own on myself first and actually realized that there was more going on inside than I had ever thought. And so I was able to use that information to really help heal myself from the inside and help eliminate any symptoms I was having at the root. You know I was having just the symptoms bloating, constipation, hormone imbalances, I had you know really irregular periods, you know developed a fibroid, you know things like that. I was dealing with acne especially you know hormonal acne around chin. Was realizing that there was something going on inside that was contributing to those. So, being able to kind of figure that out myself I was like “Wow! This is really interesting you know this disclose a lot deeper than just what we’re eating.” You know we also have to take everything else going on in our lives into consideration as well as you know what’s going on internally and the only way to really figure that out is with good functional testing. You know we could guess all day long and I definitely did plenty of that.

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:05:07] You know trying probiotics and digestive enzymes and you know eating fermented foods and you know all of the things that we know as a basis for good digestive health. But it was until I did lab work and found there were some infections and there were some imbalances in my gut bacteria going on that I was able to really address it and be able to eliminate you know the symptoms that I have so now that’s really why I like to help my clients do that.

Mathea Ford: [00:05:35] I think that’s a great example of you know we get so generalized information in our internships and that’s the purpose is to get a broad swath and then you kind of specialize, specialize, specialize but how is it different from normal medicine? The functional work that you do to with a patient because it sounds like there’s some you know fact basis, there’s some labs. But how is it different than what you would do as a dietician without this training, without this credential?

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:06:11] The FDN program has allowed me really to have access to more labs to be able to run with clients. As a dietitian, there are some labs that we are able to order and it kind of depends on what state you’re in as well. Certain states allow for you to be able to do more so for my state here I use Dutch testing which is a urine based hormone test so I can definitely do that on my own as an RD but I wasn’t able to run a GI map which is the stool test that I like to run with clients. It’s a DNA based stool test so with the FDN program, we also have access to what they call a Medical Director program. We can basically request labs through their doctor who’s the director and you’ll be able to use that to be able to get that testing out and available for clients because these functional tests that I have seen because you know I’ve run a few different labs on myself. I did traditional blood testing for hormones which of course you know oftentimes I hear even from clients you know it comes back and the doctor says “Oh! Everything looks normal right?” It looks like everything’s fine even though you’re like fallen down with symptoms as long as labs look fine you’re fine right? But in the functional world you know we look at things in a much tighter range than in the conventional world you know as long as you fall within between A and Z, you’re fine even if you’re at B you know. So, in the functional world we’re much tighter there but we also take the client into account to what symptoms are you having and use that to correlate. You know listening to you and what’s going on with you not just reading the labs. That has really been a catalyst of what FDN has taught me to do to is to being able to use and have access to labs but also reading them and looking at them from a functional perspective and also then taking the client and what they’re dealing with into account too. With Conventional Medicine and honestly I see this happen sometimes within the functional like naturopathic world. There are definitely plenty of great doctors out there but it’s all too about kind of what they’ve been taught you know and then conventional world they’ve been taught “Okay, if someone comes in with this. This is what you do. And then if that comes back fine then this is like the medication you give them” because they’re really just trying to help manage symptoms. They’re not really taught to get to the root. And you know even in an ad for profit world you know sometimes you’re in the case where you know they’ll get a bunch of labs done even if they’re really good labs and then they might just be told “Okay, well here take these 10 supplements and you’re be good.” But you know the healing process isn’t just about food, it isn’t just about taking supplements but it’s about lifestyle too. “How are you managing your stress? Are you sleeping? You know are you supporting your liver? Are you removing as many toxins from your life as possible?” You know these it’s looking at the person as a whole because your body doesn’t work as individual system. So, oftentimes like someone will say “I went to the doctor and they tested my hormones and they said I was low in progesterone so they just gave me some progesterone.” And I said “well, that’s great! Because that might help you feel better. But I want to know why progesterone is low. I want to dig deeper and figure out what’s causing. Is it a digestive issue? Is it a stress issue? It could be a combination of both. Are you just you know nutrient deficient which is preventing you from being able to you know make certain hormones? Is it inflammation that’s causing that?” So you know you really want to be able to work with somebody that’s looking at the full picture and I see that missing in especially the conventional medicine world.

Mathea Ford: [00:09:55] What are some things that people might consider normal that are actually signs or something to be concerned about?

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:10:03] Yeah! So, I think the biggest things that I see with clients constipation you know I would say a good 80 to 90 percent of clients I deal with have constipation and sometimes they don’t even realize that they’re constipated. I’ve heard of “Oh! I went to my doctor I told them I only poop three times a week but that’s how I’ve always been and they said ‘Oh well that’s probably normal for you'” Sorry but it’s not. Even if it’s something you’ve been dealing with for your whole life. That doesn’t make it normal. You know we need to be able to poop daily to be able to get rid of toxins and get rid of excess hormones and things like that. So that’s a sign. So, even those that are maybe going on a daily basis. Does it look like little balls? Do you feel actually like you’re eliminating fully? If not then that’s still a sign of constipation. I had to write a post a blog post about what healthy poop looks like because people don’t know you know looking at that old Bristol School chart to see kind of where you fall there. I also know a lot of people women are dealing with PMS. You know premenstrual syndrome whether it’s cramping you know, whether it’s bloating, irritability, you know irregular periods – those types of issues. And we think it’s so common. I mean gosh every time I watch TV or commercial and I see them talking kind of joking about PMS you know and like every time I see that I’m like “That’s not normal!” You know it means there’s a hormone imbalance going on that needs to be addressed. We shouldn’t have to deal with those types of things. So, I would say those are really the two top problems that women come to me with that they don’t really always realize is an issue. But you know I deal a lot with low energy, you know fatigue. Some people are like “well, I have three kids.” So yeah you know the doctor says “Well, of course your fatigued you know because you’re dealing with three children” but that’s not always the case. You know that could definitely be a symptom of something going on. I see a lot of anxiety as well. You know depression and that is another sign, it’s a symptom of something going on deeper and you know that’s kind of one thing that I like to educate the public on is to what things to look for that aren’t normal and just about any symptom you can think of. Something that I think we know ourselves enough to know when something’s off or when something doesn’t seem right and you know we just want to be able to acknowledge that yes there’s something going on you know that we can address and we can look and investigate to see what’s going on that’s contributing to it and that there are answers out there.

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:12:37] And so if you go to a practitioner and you know they do testing on you if you’re lucky enough to kind of get that and they say “Oh! Everything looks fine, you’re fine!” but you don’t feel fine then don’t take that as the end-all- be-all. You need to find somebody who really understands this whole process and how the body works together as a whole to really help you figure out what’s causing the symptoms.

Mathea Ford: [00:13:03] Okay. So, You also mentioned that you are a LEAP therapist? L-E-A-P. So, what is that and how does that fit into your practice?

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:13:12] Yeah! So LEAP MRT testing is a food sensitivity test that’s a blood test. A lot of food sensitivity testing out there is just IgG using IgG antibodies to look for food sensitivities which are different than food allergies. Food allergies or IGE testing and food sensitivities are much more common. LEAP really goes above and beyond just looking for IgG because there’s multiple ways that your body can react to certain things. So, I find a lot of clients that I work with. You know we do stool testing. We look for it. We’re looking for gut infections, we’re looking for bacterial imbalances, you know things like that but oftentimes stress. These pathogens you know we’ve been on antibiotics a lot maybe even birth control pills that are potentially contributing to gut bacterial imbalances. You know birth control pills aren’t dealing with the problem. They’re not dealing with the root problem of hormones that are just cutting your own hormones off and you’re getting synthetic. But ultimately that can do a lot of damage on the inside as well. And I know because I was on it for a long time and had some issues with it.

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:14:22] But these things cause damage to the lining of the digestive tract and can contribute to what a lot of people know as leaky gut or intestinal permeability. And so then when you’re eating foods even if you’re eating really healthy foods, those if you have leaky gut then those foods the particles those proteins go out into your bloodstream where they’re not supposed to be and then you have a lot of immune cells floating around your bloodstream looking for things that aren’t supposed to be there. So they might come into contact with these food particles and say “wow! I need to help her fight this off. There’s something here that’s not supposed to be here. There’s a foreign invader here.” Your immune system sets these alarm bells off. Your whole body kind of kicks into gear trying to get rid of this stuff but you’re constantly eating those foods right? You’re always exposing your body to that. So, you go from you know acute inflammation which is normal. That’s a normal process that your body uses to help you deal with something like maybe a cold virus. But if you’re chronically exposing your body to these particles and you have a leaky gut. Now, you can develop chronic inflammation which is at the root of our lot of our modern day diseases. So, by using food sensitivity testing you all good food sensitivity tests we can kind of get an idea. Now, no test is really going to be perfect but it’s a tool. Testing is a tool. You know they’re not absolute.

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:15:46] So, we can use that information to kind of pinpoint where some food sensitivities might be and what foods might be contributing to inflammation in an individual because that’s going to be very different from person to person. You know there’s so many clients that come to me that have you know maybe are suffering from digestive issues, suffering from hormone issues and what’s the first thing they tend to do they start eliminating every food they can think of that could be contributing to it. Right? And they start eliminating maybe gluten and dairy and eggs and all this stuff and then they don’t necessarily feel like it’s helped as much as they would have liked. So, what they end up doing is they start cutting even more foods out and be like “oh! It’s got to be the food. It’s got to be the food.” Right? And then by the time they come to me, now they have this horrible relationship with food you know and they’re afraid to eat and they think every food is going to cause issues. They don’t want to go out to eat at restaurants with their friends because they’re afraid they’re going to eat something that’s going to cost them. And at the end of the day it isn’t just about the food. But that definitely is a piece of the puzzle right? It’s one factor. So, by using testing you know we can kind of get a better idea of what could be causing more inflammation and potentially more symptoms in that person so that they don’t have to spend months and years in agony trying to cut out all these things that they’re thinking is contributing to the problem. So, it kind of helps ease that process a little bit.

Mathea Ford: [00:17:18] I can see how that all goes together with what you’re doing. So, I know you’ve talked a little bit about this but what are the most of the people or the women you talk to have issues with and how do those show up in their lives?

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:17:32] Like I mentioned kind of PMS, irregular periods. I see a lot of people with PCOS polycystic ovarian syndrome or suspect you know that they have PCOS just based on symptoms that they have you know acne, hair loss, dark hair growth on like their you know neck or chest things like that. You know a lot of anxiety sometimes issues with sleeping, low energy, you know fatigue, they feel like they sleep throughout the night but they wake up still tired. You know the constipation, bloating you know that’s another huge one. A lot of uncomfortable to ask and these are definitely symptoms. These are things that are not right. It’s your body’s way of telling you something is wrong. It’s kind of your body’s way of screaming out for help right? Symptoms are typically the last thing that pop up. When a symptom is is there that usually means something has been off for a while. Right? It can show up kind of random time. You know sometimes I hear people tell me “Oh well! I felt fine and then this one thing happened and then all of a sudden like I had all these symptoms” and they get very confused by that you know they’re like “well, I was doing really well and now I’m not and I don’t know what happened.” And for some people it’s one stressor. Right? And what I tell clients is that stress can come from hundreds of different places and a lot of them can be hidden internally.

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:18:57] You know food sensitivities, blood sugar dysregulation, gut infections – these are all stressors that you may not really realize are issues because they’re going on inside you know. Some people are like “well, I don’t feel like I’m stressed like I don’t feel mental, emotional stress” but that’s just like one area of stress. And I think in our world today it’s impossible to avoid all stress. You know it’s like unless you’re living on a deserted island and you’re independently wealthy you know you probably have some form of stress. It just kind of comes with the territory here. You kind of got to think of your body as like filling up a cup with water you know. Your body can handle so much water until it starts to overflow because it just can’t handle it all anymore. So, it kind of becomes this domino effect of starting out with one stressor and then if that doesn’t get resolved it can kind of start to move into other areas of your body and create more symptoms more issues and then before you know it you wake up and it’s like “oh! I have five symptoms where as a couple months ago I maybe just didn’t feel so good and now I’m like now I’m constipated, now I’m bloated and it kind of becomes this” you know just this overflow that your body can’t handle anymore. And so now it turns into other things.

Mathea Ford: [00:20:10] Yeah! That makes a lot of sense because your body does work so hard to maintain that homeostasis that it does all these other things to compensate. Yeah. And then one day it just breaks down.

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:20:22] Yeah! When you’re under stress your body puts priority on that. It could care less about helping you maintain your estrogen and progesterone levels or maintaining your thyroid levels or you know making sure you’re adjusting properly because it’s trying to help deal with what it considers most critical.

Mathea Ford: [00:20:38] So, you mentioned hormones a little bit too. Can you talk about what types of hormonal issues women tend to have?

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:20:47] It definitely can vary a lot. I mean that’s why I love testing because you know I don’t want to guess what’s going on. And I’ve kind of seen it all. You know I’ve run hundreds of different hormone of the DUTCH test in particular which I love because it doesn’t just look at hormones like it’s not just testing estrogen, progesterone, testosterone but we’re looking at how your body’s actually making them and how you’re processing them, what pathways they’re going down and that’s really important information as well. So, I mean I’ve seen everything from you know high estrogen which is causing estrogen dominant symptoms which is you know can cause heavy bleeding, the PMS and the breast tenderness and you know the fibroids and things like that. You know I’ve seen a lot of PCOS which can be low progesterone you know high testosterone levels. I’ve seen a lot of adrenal issues right? Because we also get to look at cortisol and see how that’s working. I’ve seen high, I’ve seen low, I’ve seen a mixture of both. Part of testing is to try to figure out why those things are off not just that they’re off. You know how is the liver processing hormones? Is it because the liver’s clogged up and it’s not really even processing and that are all that causing them to be higher in the system. Are you under so much stress? You have lots of adrenal issues and cortisol dysregulation that’s down regulating your ability to make your estrogen and progesterone or are you under a lot of stress, have a lot of inflammation going on in your body? Inflammation hugely impacts your ability to make hormones. You know your immune system is in your gut. You know 70 – 80 percent of it and any inflammation in the gut can disrupt all of your hormones. If you’re constipated you’re not eliminating those hormones properly they’re getting recirculated in your body and then they’re getting reactivated and then you end up with higher amounts and your digestive system is also a place where a lot of the nutrients get absorbed that help you actually make hormones. You know in the first place you need those building blocks. So, you know when I test women I like to also run the stool test at the same time because the hormone testing can be really helpful. You know seeing the patterns there but like if I see on the hormone test or it looks like you have what inflammation it doesn’t really tell us where that inflammation is. So, that’s why we typically need to look at the whole picture.

Mathea Ford: [00:23:08] You talk about eating real food on your blog. And I was wanting to know kind of what do you define as real food? What do you think of when you say the word real food because you can be literal is the food actually there or not? But there is a difference that you define as real food.

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:23:27] When I’m talking to clients you know I’m not expecting perfection here. We want to kind of see you know you make progress to try to eat more real food than processed food because that’s going to provide you with more nutrients. It’s going to decrease stress on your body. So, the kind of easy definition there for me is is it coming from a farm or is it coming from a factory? Right? Does it sound like food? If you’re reading the label and it looks like you can’t even pronounce half ingredients then it’s probably not real food. It’s probably synthetically made in a factory by a scientist. And you know real food is providing your body with a lot of nutrients which are the building blocks of how your body functions in the first place but it’s also those extra toxins that you’re then providing if you eat a lot of processed foods or a lot of more chemically induced foods then that becomes an added stress on your body like we talked about before. And you know your liver gets burdened by it your body doesn’t really know what to do with it. And sometimes these chemicals can also disrupt hormones and kind of turn on certain hormones and then you have excess hormones. So, just kind of starting with the basics and just trying to eat food that sounds like food.

Mathea Ford: [00:24:43] So, what are some of the biggest mistakes that people make when they’re just eating their regular diet that you usually advise your clients to change?

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:24:51] Typically, I think it’s really easy to get in the trap especially of like let’s say you know gluten free. Going gluten free is kind of the big thing these days. Right? Or at least trying that first but then they get into the trap of kind of gluten free junk food. You know it’s like they’re now they’re eating all the gluten free cookies and stuff like that. But still if you read the label has 20, 30, 40 ingredients in them and a lot of them don’t necessarily sound like real food. So, it’s like well yeah great you’re eating you know gluten free but you’re still kind of in the processed food category there.

Mathea Ford: [00:25:27] How does processed food affect your body differently than real food so to speak? What types of things is it doing differently in your body?

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:25:35] Yeah! I think the biggest thing kind of touched on this before is just that anything that goes through your body has to go through your liver. Anything that you put on your body right gets absorbed in your skin and goes through your liver. Your liver’s like the filter of your body. And so when you’re eating foods that your body doesn’t recognize you know it has to get processed and it can kind of cause more stress on your liver which can ultimately impact a lot of other things too. Your digestion you know your liver is part of your digestive system and even your hormones because sometimes your hormones get put on the backburner while your body processes these other toxins. And then it can get recirculated reactivated. Also you’re not feeding your good gut bacteria. You know when you’re eating, we’re eating we should be eating to feed our healthy bacteria because our gut bacteria does a lot for us. You know helps us break down food, helps us make certain nutrients, helps us make short chain fatty acids that help keep us in a good mood. Help keep bad bacteria from being able to get into the system and take hold. And so when you’re not feeding your good gut bacteria with low fiber diets right? We see that a lot. Then, your gut bacteria starts to kind of eat away at the mucus layer that protective layer that’s in the lining of your digestive system. And then it does that to kind of feed itself and then once that’s gone that bacteria can start to die off and then fast forward due time and you’ve got digestive issues because you haven’t been feeding that good bacteria with nutrient dense foods.

Mathea Ford: [00:27:12] So, what are some tips or some things that they can do to use this information that you just gave us which was great in their day to day life?

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:27:21] I think for a lot of practitioners you know this process for us we should never stop learning. Even if you don’t pay to go through a program. You know there’s so many different resources out there. Go to the library get some good books, podcasts right? They’re free. They have a lot of great information on them and also just being open to new things. Things you may not feel like you understand now but don’t dismiss it before you get a chance to kind of look into it because ultimately at the end of the day you know I’m here to work for other people and to help them and the same thing for doctors you know even if you’re being paid by insurance companies you know you still work for us.

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:28:01] And so the the thing that always pains me the most is when someone comes to me and says “I tried to go to my doctor. I maybe even tried three, four, five, six different doctors and nobody would listen to me or they would dismiss me or you know tell me it was in my head or you know say ‘well, oh! I don’t think you should do this or I don’t think that’s what it is.'” And you know stuff like that but really working with your client as a team and being on their side and if someone comes to you you know saying “hey I’m really interested in running this house or I’m really interested in knowing more about that.” If you don’t know it or don’t understand it tell them that and say “well, let me get back to you let me look into it more.” And don’t just dismiss them because this is kind of a crisis situation that we’re in right now. I mean I had someone the other day who told me who you know he was having a lot of digestive issues and he couldn’t even get into the GI doctor for another two months. And that just kind of shows you how busy these doctors are because these things are so prevalent now. If we truly want to help people and heal people then we need to be open to that and be open to learning new things even if it’s not something that maybe you were taught when you were getting your education. And so just really make sure you’re also very sympathetic with these people that are going through a lot. I mean for a lot of people they’ve been dealing with these things for so long that they just started looking for someone to really listen to them and realize that there’s something going on and take them seriously. So, you know that’s kind of what my hope is for other practitioners moving forward. And so if I can kind of shed light on that and maybe even something that I mentioned make someone think “oh! Ha! Maybe I should go look at that or look at that test” or you know “hey! If someone comes to me with this issue, now I know I don’t just dismiss them or just give them the medication but I want to kind of figure out what I can do to help them” and if you don’t feel like you know then you know refer them to somebody who you do think will help. You know I know a lot of doctors don’t get a lot of nutrition you know in school. So, have a dietitian on your team or somebody that you can then refer them to be able to help them through that process because I still hear people doctors tell people that nutrition doesn’t matter or “oh! You know you don’t need to change your diet because it does not going to impact you” but it does right? We know it. We see it. We can prove it. So, be open to that.

Mathea Ford: [00:30:32] In a little lighter note, I always like to end with asking my guests “What is your favorite food?”.

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:30:40] Yeah! You know if you were to ask me that ten years ago I probably would’ve said something with sugar in it. Ice cream or whatever. And I asked my husband that all the time. Sometimes we go out and you know there’s there’s people that ask and he’ll say “salad.” As boring as that is, it’s kind of true. It’s like a really good salad though not just I’m not talking about some lettuce thrown into a bowl or whatever but like a nice homemade dressing with some good roasted veggies on there. Maybe some nuts or trunks, some good healthy protein something like that. I’m kind of one of those people that if I haven’t eaten vegetables in too long. I’m like give me a sprout, where’s the nearest salad that I can get my hands on? And after I eat it I’m just like “oh yes! You know. That was what my body needed.”

Mathea Ford: [00:31:30] Wow! Oh that’s great! Yeah. I love salad too and I love just yeah! It can’t be plain it needs to have a few other things like maybe some pears, maybe some roasted walnuts something like that.

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:31:43] I mean that’s just kind of goes to show you how kind of changing yourself over the years can make your taste buds change too.

Mathea Ford: [00:31:53] Well, Sara thank you so much for being on the podcast today. It was a pleasure to have you on the show. I know my listeners have learned a lot about gut and hormone imbalances and about your FDN credential. I think that’s really something that dietitians need to know about at least. If listeners want to connect with you what’s the best way to do with that?

Sara Korzeniewski: [00:32:13] I do have a website. It is theorganicdietitian.com and that dietitian with D-I-E-T-I-T-I-A-N. You know I know what people felt with the C but that’s not the right way. And you can also find me on social media with the same name The Organic Dietitian over on Instagram. That’s where I had to do a lot of posting and also on Facebook as The Organic Dietitian as well.

Mathea Ford: [00:32:39] Well, guys this has been another great episode of the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast is all about learning more so you can do more with nutrition in your life.

 

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Nutrition Experts Podcast Episode 27 News Edition, Holiday Eating, Losing Weight, Eating Healthier with Janet Brancato

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Janet Brancato is a Registered Dietitian Nutritionist with a Masters degree in Nutrition from New York Medical College, Valhalla, NY.  She did her undergraduate studies and received a Bachelors of Science in Nutrition from Montclair State University, NJ.

She is experienced in the field of Nutrition for over 20 years, teaching groups, and counseling individuals on diet modifications and lifestyle changes to promote health.  She is experienced with kids, teens, and adults. Her specialty is weight management but she also works with various medical challenges.

The past 15 years she has worked at a local hospital in NJ as an outpatient dietitian and community health speaker.

Janet decided to expand her scope of practice and created Nutopia, LLC a virtual private practice about 5 years ago. She can meet with clients using telehealth technology from the comfort of their home or office.

The motto for her business is “Simplified & Personalized” taking the information and breaking it down into manageable goals and giving clients a personal experience. She motivates and supports clients in between visits.

Janet is also a food blogger, you can check it out on her website www.mynutopia.com.

Follow her on social media:

Facebook – @Nutopia, LLC
Twitter/IG – @janetmsrd

Mathea Ford: [00:00:27] Hey there! It’s Mathea. Welcome back to the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast featuring nutrition experts who are leading the way using food starts today right now with our next guest. It’s great to have Janet Brancato back on the show today. Janet welcome to Nutrition Experts.

Janet Brancato: [00:00:45] Hi Mathea! It’s so nice to be back here again.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:47] Yeah I’m excited. We’re going to talk. This is our news podcast so it’s episode number 27 and we’re going to talk about some things that are important at this time of year. So, it’s November and we have Thanksgiving coming and we have Christmas coming and Hanukkah and all the different kind of holidays that involve getting together with families and eating. So we’re going to go over some different topics that we felt would be good to remind you of this time of year. So, let’s get started. I thought we’d start with talking about good snacks to take with you on the go. So, you may be traveling either in the car or on a plane. Other ways buses whatever. And going somewhere to visit family or whatever. So, what are some good snacks that you could take with you that are healthy that are easy to travel? Obviously yogurts not going to last very long in your purse. So, Janet did you have any thoughts on that?

Janet Brancato: [00:01:52] Yes! I always try to bring snacks whether I’m going on a long distance trip or even a short trip, traveling on the car, in the air. I always try to plan for a snack. Something that’s going to be easy and portable like you said. Doesn’t need refrigeration and something that’s going to really fill me up and hold me. So, I always try to pair of fiber and a protein together. The fiber comes from the plant based foods. So, maybe a fruit or vegetable or some kind of whole grain, whole grain bar or crackers or something like that along with a protein, a simple easy protein could be like a nut butter or some nuts or seeds. I find that those are easy to sort of bring about on the road. They really fill me up and hold me and also give me energy because the longer the time you want to keep your energy up, mental alertness, you know stay well hydrated definitely bringing water on the go as well.

Mathea Ford: [00:02:52] Yeah I love the idea of whole fruits. You can buy I’m usually in the airport or whatever but you also can see a lot of times at gas stations or whatever they’ll have some whole fruit at the counter but obviously even easier is just to bring some with you. Bananas, oranges as long as you have a little bit of wipes to keep your hands clean. Sometimes we don’t think about this. My kids hate it when their sandwiches are soggy but if we’re traveling you can bring you know kind of the components separately. So, you bring bread or crackers like you said and then maybe some peanut butter and jelly or some other things that you want to put on those crackers, hummus. I know hummus isn’t always as portable. But also I love the idea of nuts. Like you said it got fat and they’ve got protein and that’s going to really hold you over for a longer period time specially between meals. And I just think sometimes we snack a little too much. So, I always try to make sure and do a double check and do I really want some water. Do I really just need some fluid. We tend to not drink as much while we’re traveling and I think it’s because it’s less convenient. And it’s a little bit harder to manage but just make sure that if you’re snacking and you think you’re hungry. Check “Okay, when was the last time I ate? Maybe I just need a little water.” Any other thoughts on that?

Janet Brancato: [00:04:17] I mean I look at companies now are coming up with these little nut butter packets it’s much more portable. And even the little hummus cups. Again they’re small sort of portions size even a little guacamole are made to be very portable and snack size which is great because you can take one of those. And like you said pair it with like a fruit or vegetable or a little baggie of crackers. So, those little packets are definitely helpful even a little oatmeal pack. Do that in hot water in the airport or on the plane and then you have a quick little you know nice little oatmeal there or the little trail mix you could actually make your own or you can buy a trail mix all the way together. It’s about the drive through usually a nut or a seed. Sometimes you can get a roasted bean in there. Those are really good and nice and filling.

Mathea Ford: [00:05:11] Yeah! I love dried fruit too. There they can be a little calorically dense but just a few of them gives you that sweet instead of buying a candy bar. Have a little bit of that. So, that’s a good point. Okay. So, those are some of our ideas for you to you with travel and we all know what’s coming up at the end of this month that’s the big meal that everybody either loves to get together with their family for just gets together with their family for Thanksgiving. I wanted to just talk about kind of the calories that are in the Thanksgiving dinner and how we can make a Thanksgiving dinner a little bit healthier. And I think you’ve got to start with your plate when you go through the first time I just grab a little bit because there’s always plenty of food. If there’s not plenty of food then that’s a different story. But usually there’s an abundance of food. So, I just grab a little bit of everything and I want to try. Broccoli Bacon Salad, a little bit a turkey, a little bit of gravy, a little bit of potatoes and then I get a little taste of everything. And I get a chance to sit there and talk with my family and munch and then not too many snacks beforehand. You know usually there’s maybe some snacks out our appetizers while everybody’s waiting for the food to finish but I try to manage that just that way and then go back and get a little bit more of the things that I really like. And I also try to remember that there’s always dessert – a special in Thanksgiving.

Janet Brancato: [00:06:44] Exactly! And just don’t stress out you know enjoy the holiday. I know a lot of people eat or skip meals you know to save up for the Thanksgiving meal. They’re not eating breakfast and denying lunch. What happens is that really does backfire because at some point the hunger is on it again and then it gets to lose control. So feeding regular breakfast have something for you. Well, don’t stress but stay mindful. Like you said you know stay mindful of how much you are putting on your plate. You know depending upon whether you’re the host or you’re going to the celebration you know you can have a little bit of control of what’s there. So if you are the host you could again try to make sure there’s a lot of those nice healthy colorful vegetables on hand. If you’re going to the celebration you can bring a veggie platter or you could bring a fruit ball so that you know there’s going to be some options for you to go to. So, yeah definitely you know stay mindful with your portions but enjoy yourself. I mean it only comes once a year and there might be foods that you only eat on Thanksgiving. So, again you know maybe start with a smaller helping but try a lot of different things and then eat it nice and slow. Really enjoy.

Janet Brancato: [00:08:03] I think a lot of us are so hungry and are so excited that we eat so quickly. We feel like “oh! I feel I didn’t eat anything. I know they want to go back for more so I think like slowing down and really savoring even that first plate is really kind of a good strategy as well.

Mathea Ford: [00:08:21] Yeah! And if you’re the host or hostess. Good idea is to think about the serving spoons that you use. So, if you put that big huge serving spoon in the mashed potatoes everybody’s going to grab that much and put it on their plate. But if you maybe use some smaller utensils or even just offer them they’re at the place then people can take a little bit of everything, you can let everybody know hey you know just grab a little bit of everything you want and come back and get whatever you know you liked the best and get a little more of. But you’re right there’s things we only eat at Thanksgiving that we only put that effort into eating of that time a year. Other things are, I feel that way when I go to a new place I’m always like I don’t want to go out to dinner at a place that I’ve already been if I can unless I really really want something from there. So, if you can get a dinner roll any time of the year then I would skip the dinner roll but you can’t get necessarily candied yams anytime of the year. Candied sweet potatoes or maybe your mom’s grooming casserole. So, do enjoy that at that time but it’s not required that you take a little bit of everything. You know it’s not that way. So, you can really eat just a dab. And so I think we forget that it is about gathering and about being with your family.

Janet Brancato: [00:09:45] Exactly! Yeah! Focus on the people. You know there’s some things you can do like go a little lighter on the gravy you maybe it was a little drizzle vs. weeding out a drenching something in it or leaving the skins off the turkey. Like all those things can really help too.

Mathea Ford: [00:10:02] And with your dessert you can go have these so maybe they cut the pumpkin pie piece eight to a pie. Find somebody that wants to maybe go half and half maybe you want some pecan and some pumpkin. And we used to do this when I worked at the V.A. hospital for Thanksgiving dinner we would do just half slice each of a pumpkin and a pecan so that everybody got a little taste of each but we weren’t given them two whole slices of pie. And so think about maybe cutting your desserts a little smaller so that people can get more like a taste. If we’re the host, we tend to do a lot of the work and we’re exhausted. So make sure that you’re inviting other people to help. People will offer to bring things and I just encourage you to let them.

Janet Brancato: [00:10:48] Yeah! Yes! Definitely get them involved with preparations and then even helping you you know with clean up or that type of thing. It shouldn’t be all on one person you should be able to enjoy yourself as well.

Mathea Ford: [00:11:03] Yeah. My husband got a new grill this year which is it’s an indirect heat. I don’t know if it has these wood pellets but the guy who was selling it to them looks at me and he says “well, he can cook the Thanksgiving Dinner Turkey on this grill.” And I was like “I’m all for that.” So, this year we’re going to try it out with my husband took the turkey on his grill. Anyway it’s more like a oven. It’s kind of a weird setup but I’m like I’m so excited because now I get the oven back to cook a few other things. So…

Janet Brancato: [00:11:34] Beans, ram, shallots is delicious!

Mathea Ford: [00:11:36] Yeah it’ll be a little interesting taste but Thanksgiving, Christmas this applies to any of those things we’ve kind of gone over so when you got a Christmas dinner do the same thing. Cut your desserts in half. Try to just take a little bit of everything if that’s what you want and not overdo it. There was an article that just came out that talked about nutrition and exercise and bone strength. So, I wanted to talk about that a little bit because I’ve always thought weight bearing exercise is really what helps with bone health. I mean I know you need to have the vitamins and the minerals as long you have a healthy diet but this one asks the question: Exercise or Nutrition, which one has a bigger positive impact on bone strength? And the result that they came up with is that nutrition has a greater impact on bone mass and strength than exercise. And they said even after the exercise training stopped the mice that they were looking at this in mice. The mice retained bone strength gains as long as they ate a mineral supplement diet. So, this was from University of Michigan and it was dated October 17th. So, you have any thoughts on that Janet?

Janet Brancato: [00:12:53] This was something new. I mean I knew these minerals are so important for bone health but you know I didn’t realize that the nutrition kind of outweighed the exercise is actually something that I thought was very interesting. It wasn’t just the calcium but it was the phosphorous too so it’s really all those minerals sort of working together that seems to be you know like you said even more so than…. The exercise is important too but this sort of is more of a longer term solution and works even without the exercise. Yeah this was great to know that you know having that diet with all those minerals is so beneficial to own mass, bone density and strength. That was something new for me but I think that’s very good to know.

Mathea Ford: [00:13:41] Well, I think we’ve known for a while that bone mass kind of gets to its peak when we’re young, 20s or whatever. This just reminds me that it’s super important to make sure that our kids are getting a variety of food that you don’t have a lot of control over or when they go out on their own not necessarily college but that’s the peak bone time and we need to make sure that they’re either getting foods with lots of calcium and phosphorus in them. You know that obviously begins early but making sure that our young teens and early 20s we’re encouraging them to make sure they get that healthy diet. And I know we do some but we always kind of I mean I always kind of thought “well, they have to get their exercise soon. And I think exercise is definitely important but it’s one of those things where it’s like “wow if I make sure that they have a good basis in their diet, they’re getting all these vitamins and minerals that’s can also make sure that that happens.”.

Janet Brancato: [00:14:44] Yeah. Well you know when they’re young they’re at their highest calcium needs. And I know a lot of kids kind of stopped drinking milk at a certain age. They don’t like it. So, it’s always that challenge of getting in the calcium. Some of them don’t eat green vegetables that are also its source of calcium like the Kale you know or broccoli you know but we want to try to see where we can maybe entice them by you know me making a smoothie or doing something with a yogurt Parfait or just finding ways to get those calcium and phosphorus rich foods into their diet young like you said they’re in a bone building phase though it is sort of a key component of their eating. We want to try and make sure that we’re being tuned into that.

Mathea Ford: [00:15:27] Yeah I think they tend to move towards the phosphorus dense beverages like sodas or diet sodas which then can deplete that calcium because our body has a very extensive mechanism to manage the calcium, phosphorus levels in our blood.

Janet Brancato: [00:15:44] Throws off that balance.

Mathea Ford: [00:15:46] Yeah. So, I just wanted to kind of talk about that little because I think it’s new information and obviously it’s an animal study and it doesn’t translate automatically to humans. But as we learn more, I think it’s important to just start thinking in that direction. It just reinforces what we already knew that nutrition is important especially at that stage in life. And like you said plant based diet can get plenty of calcium. You don’t have to necessarily be eating or drinking those beverages so… I saw this other article that was posted and I’m trying to see the date on it. It said it was from March early this year. Broiling, barbecuing, grilling a roasting to prepare beef and chicken increase the risk for Type 2 diabetes. And this was information from the Nurses Health Studies and the Health Professionals Follow Up Studies which was 289 men and women. So, it’s a big study. And I’m sure they looked at food frequency questionnaires then correlated they said fish was not related to this but the chicken and the beef. So, I just want… It says it who frequently ate meats and chicken cooked at high temperatures were one and a half times more likely to develop Type 2 diabetes compared to those who ate the least. There was also increased risk of weight gain in developing obesity in the frequent users of high temperature cooking methods which may have contributed to the development of diabetes. I think we’re discovering more and more that obesity is almost a precursor to especially type 2 diabetes. So, did you have any any thoughts on that Janet?

Janet Brancato: [00:18:11] Yeah! I Mean I saw that it said too that it had a lot to do with if it was well done or the charred well. The more charred, the more of an increase risk vs. if it was lightly browned so that seemed to be a little bit of a difference there. And there seemed to be a connection between those chemicals coming from the heat contributing to an increase in inflammation which we know is sort of a root cause of a lot of chronic conditions. So, it’s a little bit better to use a slower cooker method so cooker, baking, steaming, stewing or even a stir fry. It’s not really on the high heat for long. We don’t want to encourage people to under cooked chicken for sure. But you know you want to cook that chicken fully but… So, some other options, my thoughts were you can do to grill marks ahead of time if you’re concerned about this you do on the grill quickly just to put in the grill marks and then bake the chicken you can again just bake it. You have the option to do some blackened type of things which is more of a spice not necessarily a charring. As we learn more there’s a lot of conflicting information too. You know obviously but I think there’s that link between the obesity and the diabetes that while they found these people were more likely to eat you know red meat and chicken that were cooked on a grill. They also said that they tended to have more issues with the obesity which I believe may be of good factor in there too that they obviously said is a factor but they didn’t necessarily measure how much. So…

Janet Brancato: [00:19:59] Right! And it could be a portion control thing too. Maybe just eating less of that you know animal source as well. I mean you know they’re recommending just not keeping it on the high heat that long. Like you said you want it to be cooked through but maybe just initially putting it on there and then finishing it off in a slower cooker method putting it in oven in or in your crackpot or something like that you could finish it off and then maybe most of the meal are more plant based. So, kind of balance things out a bit more.

Mathea Ford: [00:20:29] Yeah! I think we are finding very clearly that plant based diet whether they’re purely vegetarian or just emphasized the plants on the plate vs. the meat is leading to better outcomes is making people healthier. Obviously lower a little bit lower fat but also just not processed. So, they said in this that to lower diabetes risk it’s important reduce red and processed meat consumption which like you said can be replaced by chicken, fish, plant protein foods. I would say that if you’re concerned about diabetes you definitely need to manage how much of this especially red meat and processed meats that you’re eating. You know they also again I’ll go back. They said the weight was also a factor. So, as long as you’re getting exercise and doing those things that we know altogether combined make you healthier then that’s going to lead to a decreased risk as well.

Janet Brancato: [00:21:31] And that those player base foods are also anti-inflammatory so they can really help sort of counter that inflammation as well.

Mathea Ford: [00:21:40] So, inflammation your body you want to talk about for the listeners maybe they don’t know what that is. Would you kind of talk through them a little bit?

Janet Brancato: [00:21:47] You know something that’s more of inflammation is when your body gets some sort of trauma to it like you got a cut or a bruise. Obviously, there’s a short term inflammation going on the body so your body sort of heals and repairs it. This is talking a little bit more of a chronic inflammation where there’s sort of an underlying invader sort of you know in the body that your body is sort of like fighting against and it’s causing you know other reactions in the body that might be causing you know blood sugar to rise or you know other sort of chronic conditions sort of as a way of a defense mechanism or is this inflammation of that kind of makes sense. But it’s sort of something that’s a little bit more chronic versus a short term response. It can like you said diet is a part of it. Also weight gain or obesity could be part of it too. You know causing certain chemicals to get released in the body and can cause other ripple effects in the body. Maybe a little more insulin resistance could go on or you know things like that might happen a little more long term obviously not in the short term but it could be more of a root cause of things.

Mathea Ford: [00:22:56] So, if you think about when you have like a cut in that area it gets a little bit swollen and it gets red, it gets kind of puffy your body has a reaction where it goes in there and starts to clear out those cells.

Janet Brancato: [00:23:09] Yeah! your immune response.

Mathea Ford: [00:23:10] Right! So, imagine that happening kind of chronically in your body and so your body is constantly kind of at that irritated state and that’s not healthy for us. So, the things we can do to lower that inflammation are important. And you’re right those eating more plant based foods are definitely lower inflammation. So, we’re getting close to the beginning of the year. And while we don’t want to think about a diet and I don’t like the word diet. Well, I like the word diet as far as a diet is the food that I eat every day. It’s not necessarily a change that I make for a couple of days to lose weight. So, if you think about healthier overall diet a report I saw said that the Mediterranean and the DASH diets are kind of the top ways of eating. I see it summarized a lot as W-O-E way of eating. So, the Mediterranean and the DASH diet are the best overall diets for 2018 at least that they were measuring. And I wanted to talk about. So what is the DASH diet and what is the Mediterranean diet? So the DASH diet is an abbreviation for Dietary Approaches to Stopping Hypertension but basically it’s more plant based. It has lots of fruits and vegetables, a little bit lower sodium, lower protein but it was a study that showed that when people ate that way, that their blood pressure was naturally lowered and I do a lot of counseling with people, educating people with kidney disease especially Stage 3, Stage 4 but when people who have stage 1 or stage 2 kidney disease, if their doctor actually told them. I always encourage them to follow a DASH diet because it is it does help lower their blood pressure and it kind of puts them on a little bit more plant based diet. So, Janet do you want to talk about what the Mediterranean diet is?

Janet Brancato: [00:25:13] You know pretty much stems from that area of the world. The Mediterranean countries which of course has those influences and definitely there’s the plant based you know a lot of plant based foods as well as fish. So, fish a big food on the Mediterranean diet you know. So, in those Mediterranean countries they eat a lot of fish and olive oil is their main source of fat which we know is a very healthy type of fat. The mono unsaturated fats it also has those healthy omegas, a lot of the antioxidants. So, it’s really been known. Lots of research with olive oil being not only heart healthy but good for the brain and the joints. So, it’s overall very healthy type of fat. They also eat beans and nuts and seeds. So those are also a big part of the diet as well. Definitely you know those plant based foods are a bigger amount on the plate. Obviously, you know there’s some grains too in those countries they eat them in smaller portions. You know they’ll have maybe some bread or the pasta or maybe a couscous or some type of Mediterranean grain but it’s also balanced with fish and the plant based foods, the vegetables or fruit and that olive oil on top. So, this diet for really centuries has been shown to increase longevity and decrease chronic conditions. It’s a heart healthy. So, a lot of these countries have been studied and they have low incidences of heart disease in this Mediterranean region of the world.

Mathea Ford: [00:26:55] I think sometimes we think fat is bad or we’ve taught people, recent cardiac guidelines that fat was bad. And I know that the American Heart Association changed their recommendation to not necessarily say a specific amount but more just like you said the healthier fats so the mono and polyunsaturated, the olive oil. And I just want encourage people that fat is not necessarily bad in our diet. It actually helps us to feel full and is able to eat a little less even though the calories might be the same but there it’s healthy for our hearts and our brains. The reason they stated that they liked the DASH and the Mediterranean diets the bests was because they felt like they were more sustainable. So, I know in the past we talked about intermittent fasting and the Keto diet and they just felt like those were more short term diets and really it’s easier just the sustainability of like a DASH diet or a Mediterranean diet is higher because it doesn’t necessarily you know restrict an entire category of food. It’s just more about portion and about the amounts and the types of food that you eat the majority of. But again there it is plant based and both of those are really heavily based in fruits, vegetables, grains, beans type diet that work over a longer period of time.

Janet Brancato: [00:28:25] Exactly! And they’re you know they’re well-balanced. You know they fill you up, they satiate and their food quality you know the quality of foods. High nutritional quality and they’ve been effective. They’ve shown to be very helpful in the long term. So, like you said it’s a long term solution not really a short term solution.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:45] I think we forget sometimes when we lose the same. Losing, regain the same ten pounds that we really don’t get any further ahead vs. even if we weighed the same if we were eating a healthier diet that’s not as like we talked about inflammatory for our bodies and helps us to all of those healthful benefits we’re better off than if we can go back and forth on some different fad type of diets. So, yes! Food quality is super important. And kind of to end the podcast, I wanted to go over this talking about some different things, foods, ingredients that we like to use in this time of year because it’s the fall and we like “If you’re like me like your sweaters” and you’re kind of that fall feeling. Oh! When I flew somewhere last week and I flew through Denver and they had snow and I was like “oh I’m so excited to see snow. Even I really didn’t want to go out and be in it because it was cold. So, some different ingredients we use a little more this year. Cranberry. So, any ideas for using more Cranberry in our diet?

Janet Brancato: [00:29:59] Yes. I love cranberry. And it’s really so personal adds a little bit of sweetness but it’s got those antioxidants in it and fiber. So, I usually top it on my salad. I put a full cranberries on top on top and it really adds a nice flavor. You could put it in your oatmeal or your yoghurt or you could bake with them. A lot of great… They’re very versatile.

Mathea Ford: [00:30:21] Yeah! We are talking about Thanksgiving a little bit before and I know cranberries, jelly or whatever is one of the things we do but we could put cranberries like you said on a salad. I love them on steel-cut oats. They’re delicious and it does give that little bit a sweet without being sugary. So, what about garlic? I know a lot of people that love garlic. So, how do we use garlic a little more?

Janet Brancato: [00:30:44] Ohh garlic! I use garlic on everything. I’m Italian. I love garlic. It’s very versatile and it will really add a lot of flavor. And it has a great health component and its been shown to lower cholesterol, lower risk of cancers so you could really chop it up. You know you can either buy the already diced if you really don’t have time to do a lot chopping and throw it into vegetables or if you’re doing a stir fry, if you’re making a sauce. You know you could just grate a little bit over dishes. Keeping it on hand to add flavor if you’re cutting back on salt or sodium you know adding herbs and spices and garlic is a great way of adding flavor and nutrition.

Mathea Ford: [00:31:29] Yeah! And you dont have to add a ton but definitely if you’re cooking like if you’re doing a dish where you have a little bit of onion that you’re sauteeing you could throw some garlic in there and sautee it at the same time and it makes it really that flavor come out.

Janet Brancato: [00:31:44] Soups. It chops these and you can add it to soups.

Mathea Ford: [00:31:47] So, cinnamon. Cinnamon may help lower blood glucose level in people with type 2 diabetes. But we love adding cinnamon this time of year. So adding it to coffee, adding it to on top of all desserts or hot or iced tea. What other ideas?

Janet Brancato: [00:32:06] I love to just springkle it on my apple. It’s a great combination if you slice up an apple and you just sprinkle a little bit of cinnamon on top. It’s a great flavor. I also like to put it on my yogurt, my plain Greek yogurt. A lot of people say well it doesn’t have a lot of flavor, it’s tangy. If you add that cinnamon it actually adds a little sweet flavor to it. Oh I like to do that as well.

Mathea Ford: [00:32:29] A couple of my favorites that I love to use I’m probably going say this wrong. So apologize ahead of time. Turmeric. I call it tumeric but turmeric and then ginger. I love both of those. I love adding them to it. It’s got that warm flavor. I’ve loved Ginger since I was pregnant because I used to eat I used to buy pickled ginger in the Asian markets and I would buy a pickled ginger and I had a lot of stomach upset with my daughter and so I would chew on it but I just loved ginger grated and things or a little bit of spice and the turmeric is that warm, it gives warm flavor to me. So…

Janet Brancato: [00:33:15] You know those are great and turmeric adds nice color too. You can put it on your vegetables and then you roast them like a cauliflower. I like to add ginger, turmeric to a stir fry, to your salad dressing. Ginger adds a nice little flavor.

Mathea Ford: [00:33:31] Yeah! A little garlic, a little ginger in that salad dressing. And Asian dishes for those. You know I just remembered I was thinking about this when I was little we used to put a little bit of cinnamon on rice when we would have a little bit of milk and rice for breakfast. And I love a little bit of cinnamon on rice just like you said kind of gives you that warm feeling.

Janet Brancato: [00:33:54] Right! And you can put a little in Chile. Seen that in recipes too.

Mathea Ford: [00:33:57] Well I think Janet, that’s about it for this week. So, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. It was a pleasure to have you on the show. I know our listeners love listening to us just chat about the news that’s going on in nutrition. So…

Janet Brancato: [00:34:12] It was great. I really enjoyed it.

Mathea Ford: [00:34:15] Well guys, this has been another great episode of the Nutrition Experts Podcast. Janet, if listeners want to connect with you what’s the best way to do that?

Janet Brancato: [00:34:23] You can find me on my web site mynutopia.com. I have a virtual web site. Virtual practice working with pediatrics and adults and I also have a food blog as well so I’d love to connect with you.

Mathea Ford: [00:34:35] Okay, so this is the podcast that’s all about learning more so you can do more with nutrition in your life. Have a great week and talk to you next week.

 

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Nutrition Experts Podcast Episode 26 Listening To Your Body To Heal Yourself with Sharon Gelfand

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In the world of nutrition, few people have brought together the functional and common sense approach to food
and health as Sharon Holand Gelfand.

A member of the American College of Nutrition, Sharon Holand Gelfand is a Board Certified Nutrition
Consultant, a Functional Diagnostic Nutritionist, lifestyle designer, motivational speaker and author whose
mission is to empower women with the tools they need to live healthier, richer, fuller lives, from the inside out
and outside in. She’s passionate about helping them create a personal blueprint for success so that they can
enjoy more balance, energy and freedom every day—without the constraints of traditional dieting. Her tag line
is: Eat Well. Think Clearly. Live Fully.

Sharon Holand Gelfand holds a M.S. in Applied Clinical Nutrition from The New York Chiropractic College, and is
board certified from the American Naturopathic Medical Certification Board. She is also completing her
certification as a Functional Diagnostic Nutritionist (FDN), where through functional lab testing, she helps to
identify malfunctions and healing opportunities that are H.I.D.D.E.N. (hormone, immune, digestion,
detoxification, energy production and nervous system) and bring one back into balance.

Learn more about Sharon at http://sharonholand.com/. Connect with her on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharonholandgelfand. Follow her on FB:
https://www.facebook.com/sharonthenutritionist/, Twitter: https://twitter.com/sharonholand and Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/sharonholandgelfand/.

[00:00:00] You are listening to the Nutrition Experts Podcast. Featuring guests who take the scientific talk about food and break it down for practical use. You’ve heard the phrase “you are what you eat.” Come find out what that really means. Experience conversations with experts in the field of nutrition and understand the power of food for our health, wellbeing and beyond. Now here’s your host Registered Dietitian and Nutritionist Mathea Ford.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:27] Hi there! It’s Mathea. Welcome back to the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast featuring nutrition experts who are leading the way with food starts today right now, with our next guest. It’s great to have Sharon Holand on the show today. Sharon, welcome to Nutrition Experts. I’m excited to have you on the show and share your expertise with my tribe.

Sharon Holand: [00:00:48] Oh thank you so much for having me. I’ve been so looking forward to talking about our gut and I appreciate being on the show with you.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:57] I agree. I’m excited to talk about our gut because it’s it kind of just works for most of the time so we don’t even think about it. But I’d like you to tell my listeners a little more about you and what you do.

Sharon Holand: [00:01:10] Sure. So, I’m a Certified Functional Nutritionist and basically I look at the way our bodies function. I do a lot of specific testing with gut and hormones really to get to the root of what’s going on with the most common health complaints because we go through the day and retired and was stressed and we have IBS so we have aches and pains and we chalk it up to just getting older and then we think it’s normal. We think that “Oh! Well, this is just the way I should feel.” And it’s not it’s just what we’ve gotten used to. So, through my testing and questionnaires and working with my clients I can cut through all of that and help them find their own balance and function so that they can feel better and ground themselves with food so that they can pursue what their passions are, what their purposes and live a better, healthier life.

Mathea Ford: [00:02:05] And who doesn’t want to live a better healthier life right?

Sharon Holand: [00:02:08] Absolutely!

Mathea Ford: [00:02:10] So, let’s start with your gut. What are some signs that things are not right with your diet or your physiology that your gut could tell you?

Sharon Holand: [00:02:19] Besides the typical gas or constipation you know just that’s loaded feeling or acid reflux, it can be the fact that we have aches and pains that our joints are hurting us or that we get headaches or that we have dry skin. These things that again we think are benign are symptoms and are signs that our gut is saying “you know wake up! Wake up you know I’m trying to throw a little pebble at you to pay attention.” The challenge is that because these are common symptoms it’s so hard for it to be diagnosed as something because some people think “oh it’s chronic fatigue or it’s fibromyalgia and it’s it’s a gray area. But those are really some of the major things that you start thinking “I’ve got to look at my gut. What is going on in my gut? Where over 70 percent of our immune system lies.” So those are some of the common ones.

Mathea Ford: [00:03:18] So, those are symptoms. For example, what kind of conditions would you say that you deal with a lot.?

Sharon Holand: [00:03:26] A lot of people who come to me and you know it’s like I’m starting to work with people in their 20s even is that they’re just tired. People come to me are tired. They’ve gone to the doctor and they’re not getting… Nothing showing up so they’re just overwhelmed they’re sick and tired of feeling sick and tired and there’s no diagnosis. So, a lot of times I really I would say half my clients come to me with no particular diagnosis except that they feel instinctively “there’s something’s going on and I don’t know what it is and I can’t get the answers.” Then on the other end are people who are being diagnosed with auto immune disease. You know like Hashimoto’s or Crohn’s which is what my son has or even just Type 2 Diabetes where they don’t understand “I’m eating so healthy. I’m exercising. What’s going on? Why am I being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes or an autoimmune disease when I’m doing everything right? I’m reading everything and listening to everything” and they got their hands up and they’re just fed up. So, it kind of goes both ways of a diagnosis or just feeling sick and tired and sick being sick and tired.

Mathea Ford: [00:04:42] I can empathize with that having been a mom of young children. Absolutely! How does your work with the gut help that? Lets take being tired for example or lack of energy. How did they work to improve that by using their gut?

Sharon Holand: [00:04:59] When I start with somebody it starts with the whole intake of everything. I’m very thorough and looking at all aspects of life because it’s not just about the food. You know you and I were talking beforehand about the stresses in our lives and how there are so many factors and we have to really understand to connect all the pieces. So, I start with that because I don’t immediately go into testing because I want to get a sense of where somebody is and it’s simple things of just tell me “what your day is like. Tell me what you’re you know what do you do for a living? What’s your family situation and honing in on how or how are you sleeping? Are you drinking enough water? What are some things that we can look at?” Because sometimes somebody does eat healthy but they’re healthy is still eating wholegrain bread where they might have a sensitivity. So, I’ll say “you know maybe you want to swap that out and it just have really more root vegetables or have some sort meat. You know something with Almond flour in it.” I’m looking for simple steps before I get into the testing. And as you and I were also talking beforehand it’s about “what are you being thankful for?” You know it’s looking at “Okay, foods that you’re eating are you chewing your food? Because we’re such gulpers, we’re in a rush all the time right? And if you’re gulping your body’s stress it’s not able to digest properly. And just by slowing that process down allows your body to assimilate the nutrients and by slowing down you actually start losing weight because your brain and your stomachs are communicating and full so you eat less. So, it’s simple things like that and then what are we thankful for? It’s so easy in our negative society to be annoyed and stressed and everything. You know you turn on the news and something bad all the time or something at work or something with your kid. So it’s about pausing, breathing and enjoying your day. What can you be thankful for? Wake up in the morning. Be thankful that you’re alive! Be thankful that you have a roof over your head, that you have a spouse who loves you whatever it is. Look at that appreciation and at the end of the day no matter how bad your day is “What are three good things that happened?” And we can always find three good things. Always! And especially if you have kids or dogs you know just the love that you get from them. So, that’s another way of helping people to tune in to ways to calm their gut because they are calming their bodies because even if you’re eating well but you’re stressed out your system is going to be all haywire because it’s again not just about the food it’s about all aspects of your life and slowing down and breathing.

Mathea Ford: [00:07:56] How is your gut responding to stress? What’s the connection there? Because you know you’re talking about you’re tired and you’re stressed and that’s reacted your gut but I’m not sure I understand what the connection is.

Sharon Holand: [00:08:13] Over 82 percent of 70 percent of our immune system lies in our gut and our gut consider our second brain because it’s connected to our brain by the Vagus nerve and it’s like the superconductor highway. So, what you’re feeding your body, what you’re feeding your gut sends nutrients out to your organs through your bloodstream and up to your brain. But with that and with the being tired or the stress, there’s also these like free radicals I can think like a Pacman game you know you have Pacman who is eating up all these you know yellow blobs to try to win and those little yellow blobs are just free radicals that are being created in our bodies. There’s actually a gentleman that I listened to at a conference I went to recently Tom O’Bryan he wrote a book called The Autoimmune Fix and I love his metaphor because our gut microbiomes has like trillions of bacteria – good bad and ugly – and it’s considered by you can compare to the Armed Forces. So you have the Armed Forces that has all these different you know the Marines, the Navy, the Army and all these factions and then you can compare that to different antibodies that are in our gut. So, there’s like IgE response, IgG response. And their job is to protect our bodies. So, when it sees something coming in it automatically shoots a bullet at it but when it does that there’s collateral damage and that collateral damage creates a disruption in the gut bacteria. So, if our microbiome is disrupted and we’re eating foods and we’re not able to assimilate them properly or our body doesn’t recognize it and starts attacking it, it then affects our brain because it’s not sending the proper transmitters to our brain to give it the energy it needs so that you’re not tired and that you have the energy to do what you need to do.

Mathea Ford: [00:10:19] So, I heard Dr. Robert Martindale talk about the gut microbiome and basically how it can change over days and time, how it does help you to absorb nutrients, how it actually performed some of the digestive function. Obviously, producing… most dietitians know you get a lot of your Vitamin K from the gut microbiome. So, what you’re doing is kind of helping people to improve their gut microbiomes so therefore their whole body and immune system improves or how do you…. Am I confused?

Sharon Holand: [00:10:56] So, I start, yes, so I start with these simple ways that they can start taking care of themselves. Right? So, it’s chewing, it’s slowing down, it’s adding in you know some healthy foods, we talk about what it is they’re eating and then people generally will go opt for a gut test and that’s where I really can go in and see. It’s a stool test that sent directly from the lab to my client and that’s where they do a stool test, they sent it and I get the results I actually had somebody ask “Well, do you actually look at the poop?” I’m like “No! I don’t look at it but I get the result and it’ll show me simple things like do you have H. pylori, do you have pet parasites or you have candida but then it also shows me where there’s opportunistic bacteria dysbiosis. Actually, you know a good way to look at it is your boiling water for pasta. You put the pasta end and if it’s at the right temperature then it just will boil properly. But if it’s too high a foam is created right? And then it overflows. Right? Yeah. I know that’s ever happened to you but then all of a sudden. Right?. It’s everywhere! So, what I’m doing is I’m looking at those test results and seeing, correlating your symptoms and seeing what’s going on with the different bacteria. Seeing if there’s any auto immune triggers, any leaky gut. There are markers for that to show any inflammation because generally with what I see is that overflowing of that pasta pot we don’t necessarily know is happening except for those some of the symptoms that I mentioned. There are dozens of symptoms but those are the major ones. So, by looking at these results then I can really target the gut and start by supporting it with supplements that will help to calm the inflammation down so that you can start healing. But then also go in and get rid of these opportunistic bacteria or parasites or whatever the person’s individual results show. And once that happens that foam disappears the clearing. It’s like the fog is gone. And now you can see where you’re going because when you have that fog there it’s hard then to be able to really pay attention to really think clearly because you’re gut you know that the army is you know they’re on a field day. They’re just like “oh yeah! Let’s go you know let’s go hit this area. Let’s go back to you know my brain. Let’s go challenge this organ.” And by coming it all down and getting rid of that fog then the vagus nerve then the gut and the brain construct communicating better and so many times people don’t even realize that they have anxiety that will then practically disappear because they’ve healed their gut or I even had a client who for 20 years had the sniffles. She just didn’t even realize that that was a problem until it was gone. And then she she was like “oh my god! Wow. I didn’t think I’d ever have normal you know that I would never have to blow my nose again.”

Mathea Ford: [00:14:09] She thought she just had constant allergies. Huh?

Sharon Holand: [00:14:11] Yes! Exactly! So, did that answer your question of how I actually go in and then work with and I’m able to calm the guard down?

Mathea Ford: [00:14:21] Yeah! I Was actually going to ask you about what is the testing that you do so you kind of explain that.

Sharon Holand: [00:14:26] Because that’s where so much of everything happens and the thing is it just didn’t happen over night. You know you and I spoke about this before as well. Over time, the stress the products we put on our skin, the air we breathe, the products we clean with, the food, antibiotics that we may have taken when we were kids. There are so many factors that builds up in our body that over time, our immune system just gets tired. This throws up the white flag and it’s like there’s too much collateral damage here. I can’t keep fighting and that after years of all of this work of our body trying to adapt and adapt. That’s when the the white flag goes up and it’s like your body is like “I give up.” And that’s when we start feeling the symptoms. And that’s when we’re like “oh my God! I don’t understand but I’ve been taking care of myself. What happened?” Because it didn’t happen overnight. It took years sometimes for things to happen. My goal is always giving people hope of like “you know it’s great. Now we know now we can do something about it.” And the more armed we are with the knowledge you know just like I always say to people like “Imagine the possibilities because now you have so many choices. Because it’s not about living in a cave it’s about what can I do to improve my life on a regular basis even if it’s small steps whatever I can do to make me feel better. It’s such a yes to the first have.”

Mathea Ford: [00:15:56] Yes we don’t value our health nearly enough until we have problems with it. Absolutely. What are some ways we can work just as individuals to improve the balance between our diet and our health?

Sharon Holand: [00:16:10] You know don’t try to do everything at once. I think part of the reason why diets fail is that we want to be perfect at doing it. We try to follow something to a tee. And as you and I know there’s like what 60,000 types out there. We’re trying to do it all. We follow a system that works for one person and it works for a few weeks and then you know it stops working because we’re not we’re trying to do too much and we’re not listening to our bodies. That’s the first thing that I say to somebody is you know you do have to keep some sort of a journal. Listen to your body and start with one thing. So, somebody for instance who really eats healthy then all right, look at what products are you putting on your skin. Maybe there’s a way to use healthier products. You know go to your health food store or use something that doesn’t have as many ingredients or a company you trust. Another way is products that you’re cleaning with. You know it’s like sat with somebody who might say “yeah let me start with products and to eat healthy.” For somebody who doesn’t know they’re eating healthy. My big thing is look at your plate at each meal. Your plate should be colored with, filled with lots of colors. Alright, breakfast maybe not so because many people like “I’m not eating a salad for breakfast!” But look at your plate at lunch and dinner. Fill it up with as many colors of the rainbow. You know dark green leafy vegetables and peppers or tomatoes or zucchini or broccoli, cauliflower whatever it is. And of course I say that generally because people can have sensitivities to vegetables but I’m just talking in general and then half your plate should be that way. Then we’ll get the other half and your plate and divide it into a good healthy protein which a good serving is shifted about the palm of your hand or look like that you know like a deck of cards. You don’t need a lot of protein and then a really good healthy fat. And that could be a half an avocado, it could be nuts and seeds, could be olive oil, could be coconut oil, it could be grass fed butter. You know it’s whatever healthy fat that you like and that could be in a dressing that you’re drizzling over your salad and then a slow burning carb which could be a root vegetable. This whole idea of grains and breads is it best to minimize that as much as possible?

Sharon Holand: [00:18:36] Absolutely! Because we have so many sensitivities to it. But I say to people if you love your bread and you don’t want to change that. Start by adding in the vegetable, start by looking at the rest of your plate. Start at one place and focus on that per week and then once you have that under your belt add something else and it’s just about the baby steps. And again this is a generalization because obviously if somebody has something specific or if they’re celiac or whatever it is then you really have to be a little more extreme. But I’m just talking in general. Right? You wanna just start somewhere.

Mathea Ford: [00:19:16] You mentioned autoimmune a couple times. Are there ways that we can mitigate or change autoimmune reactions and how do we recognize what those are?

Sharon Holand: [00:19:27] Auto immune disease. It’s actually interesting how the food supply chain has changed right in the last 50 years and how prevalent autoimmune disease is becoming. There are over 80 autoimmune diseases and there are about 50 million people or about that you know that have immune disease. So, with and they’re diagnosed because some of the same symptoms that I’m talking about can be some of those triggers that start that auto immune process. And it’s really the you know the achy joints in pain the joints that you’re feeling and the foggy brain. So, being aware that those could possibly and I say possibly because everybody’s different I don’t want people to listen to this thinking “oh my God it happen we’re having autoimmune disease!” You know because the last thing you know. But again it’s that awareness of “oh wow! So, I’m feeling this let me pay attention what am I doing?” And it’s looking at like I said you know the food products were using the air. Well we can’t control the air you’re breathing but what kind of water are my drinking? Can I use a filtered water? And the top…. And you know I know this also right that the top things are the lactose and the wheat because of the way the wheat is being processed there are now so many markers for different responses that people can react to because of the whole manufacturing process and the glycyphagus that’s used in some of these you know being sprayed in the field these pesticides. So, really again going to the root of eating whole foods and asking yourself if I can’t read what these ingredients are what is it doing to my body? And if I really love having breads and by the way when somebody has a craving for bread that’s usually what they’re sensitive to and that’s kind of a catch 22 because it’s like a “ohh! Really?” You know because your body’s craving it so you’ve got right these little guys in your gut are saying “ha ha ha. We’re going to trick you. We’re going to tell you that you really want it but it’s going to feed us. We’re feeding off of it.” So I say to people “well, then try to upgrade if you’re eating regular whole grain bread. Switch to a sprouted grain, switch to an Ezekiel, switch to something that’s a higher level and see how you feel and then slowly swap it out. So, if you’re eating pasta maybe do a chickpea pasta or a black bean pasta you know and again some people may have sensitivities to legumes. But it’s starting it’s starting where you’re at and picking a place and swapping out. And dairy nobody really needs dairy.

Sharon Holand: [00:22:25] You know we think that we need calcium. We’ve been conditioned by these ads. And that’s another thing we’re eating advertisement. We’ve been conditioned by these ads to think “I have to get my calcium. I’ve got to get from dairy” but dairy is acidic and the more we are eating the dairy it’s acidic our bodies and our bodies trying to neutralize it. And what’s it doing it’s actually leaching calcium from our bones. They were being diagnosed with osteoporosis. We can’t understand why. So, you get more calcium from broccoli and dark leafy vegetables. Increase your vegetable intake and if you don’t like the taste of it throw it into a smoothie. Make yourself a protein shake and put your vegetables in there. So, those are some of the ways.

Mathea Ford: [00:23:13] If people don’t you know they want to test this or think about how to change a few things just to see if it helps, what sort of ways would you say that the listeners could use this in their day to day life that they could change?

Sharon Holand: [00:23:28] Writing down everything that they… It takes time to just sit and breathe and be with yourself and writing down what you feel in your body. So I have clients who think that it’s normal to just have a bowel movement once a week because that’s all they know. And I’ve had clients who have diarrhea every day and they think it’s normal because that’s all they know. It’s writing down all these little mundane things for yourself and then asking yourself “Is this normal?” And If it’s like “why do I believe this?” It’s time to question your body and its reaction “I’m burping all the time” you know some societies and some countries think that that’s a sign of a good meal but is that really normal. And once you’re asking yourself that then you can say “Okay, now let me see what am I eating and my reacting this way an hour after I eat.” So it’s paying attention. An hour after you eat to “am I belching? And farting? Do I gas? Do I have diarrhea? Constipation? Am I sneezing and sniffles? Do I have a scratchy throat? Do I have dry skin? Do I feel itchy?” And just writing it down and notice a pattern. So, writing it down. Look at it an hour later, look at it two hours later. If it’s the evening when you wake up in the morning see how you feel. You and I talked about before we found this call how I ate ice cream and I knew I was going to wake up feeling groggy because I’m aware now but when I wasn’t aware I didn’t understand why I was so tired in the morning until I put the pieces together of “wow! You know what? When I eat ice cream at night I wake up tired when I don’t, I’m fine.” So, once you do that then you can start saying “Okay! I’m not sure what food it is I ate, how to isolate it? And you pick one food at a time to remove, to isolate and you play around with it every few days like you would with a new baby when you introduce baby food to them. You want to see how they respond to a food so you isolate it and then if somebody feels like this is just too much work. “I don’t think I can do this myself.” Then I say “Okay, then let’s do the testing. Let’s talk. Let’s work together. And once you learn after working with me and seeing your results then you’ll have the tools to do it yourself and you’ll feel so much more empowered to know what it is and how you can then not only help yourself that help family.

Mathea Ford: [00:26:09] Okay, so a little bit different topic. I try to ask this to all my guest. So, what is your favorite food?

Sharon Holand: [00:26:20] Oh my God!

Mathea Ford: [00:26:23] Everybody says that it is the hardest question.

Sharon Holand: [00:26:24] It is because I have a couple of favorite foods that we have… I have to cook a couple of times. Honestly, I really love a great slice of thin crust pizza with some goat cheese, pine nuts and spinach. That’s like my favorite. And that’s thing is that I will indulge once in a while because my body can heal itself in those moments if I’m taking care of myself. My other favorite food is ice cream. I have some sugar but not the fake kind like the real ice cream. I’m going to have it, I’m going to have it. And again I’m just very mindful of not having too much of that because I know it creates inflammation of my body. But those are definitely my top two. And you would think that it would be something healthy. But it’s not.

Mathea Ford: [00:27:18] I go by the philosophy that all foods can fit. So, like you said you know a little bit here a little bit there.

Sharon Holand: [00:27:24] Exactly! And that’s also why when I work with my clients they see that I’m real. You know it’s like I make mistakes they all make mistakes. It’s life. It’s not even a mistake it’s just part of a process. And we have to be who we are and we have to know that it’s a lifestyle. It’s a journey. It’s never ending right?

Mathea Ford: [00:27:46] Sometimes doing those little things like eating a little ice cream and recognizing again “oh yeah! That makes me feel a certain way just reinforces that. Okay. Yes. I need to remember to continue to treat myself right by eating the right foods. Though it only serves as a good reminder. But yeah.

Sharon Holand: [00:28:07] Exactly! I do have to say Guac is definitely up there also and I eat an avocado every single day. So, something healthy for the listeners.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:19] I love guacamole too. The only I think I’m the only one in my family that does those so whenever we go out to a Mexican restaurant and guacamole comes with the fajitas or whatever their eyes like “here, you can have them!” Like “Yey!” Because we don’t have a lot of avocados in Oklahoma.

Sharon Holand: [00:28:37] That’s a funny. Yeah! More for you right? The more the merrier.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:40] Well Sharon, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. It was a pleasure to have you on the show. I know my listeners learned a lot about how food affects our health. And so listeners want to connect with you what’s the best way to do that?

Sharon Holand: [00:28:54] Definitely go to my website sharonholand.com. Sign up for my newsletter and you’ll get a free guide. Break Free from Cravings, Diets and Deprivation. And I have a Saturday YouTube video that I’ve put up every Saturday morning – Saturday Mornings with Sharon where I give quick tips the best way. And then from there I offer complimentary consultations which you can find everything on my website.

Mathea Ford: [00:29:20] That sounds great! Okay. Well guys, this has been another great episode of the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast is all about learning more you can do more with nutrition in your life.

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Nutrition Experts Podcast Episode 25 Everyone Starts Somewhere So Stop Stressing About It with Julie Harrington

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Julie is the Registered Dietitian and Culinary Nutrition Chef behind her website www.julieharringtonrd.com based in New Jersey.

Cooking has always given Julie joy because of its powerful ability to connect people together. She was always intrigued by the way food can impact your health and decided to follow my passion to dive deeper in learning through culinary school and becoming a registered dietitian.

Prior to starting my business, Julie worked as a supermarket RD, providing nutrition education right in the grocery store. Now with her own business, she works with individuals one-on-one to help nourish their lives through nutrition & cooking education. Julie also partners with like-minded food brands and organizations through recipe development, food photography, nutrition communications, and media work.

Julie’s passion is to educate others about nutrition through food and giving them the tools they need to build confidence in the kitchen. It’s her mission to help everyone appreciate all the delicious ways foods can be prepared so everyone can fall in love with it again and again.

Along with being a cookbook author, most recently, her recipes have been featured in SHAPE, Huffington Post, US News & World Report, and Healthy Aperture.

Along with running her own business, Julie is the Culinary Nutrition Manager of Living Plate, where she teaches cooking classes and involves culinary instruction with nutrition education for community events and corporate wellness programs.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:27] Hi there! It’s Mathea! Welcome back to the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast featuring nutrition experts who are leading the way using food starts today right now with our next guest. It’s great to have Julie Harrington on the show today. Julie welcome to Nutrition Experts. I’m excited to have you on the show today and share your expertise with my tribe.

Julie Harrington: [00:00:50] Thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to be chatting with everyone.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:53] Great! Julie, I love what you’re doing you’re a chef and a dietitian. And of course being a foodie that I am I think that’s the best combination but can you tell my listeners a little more about you and what you do?

Julie Harrington: [00:01:06] Yep! So I am like you just said I’m a chef and a dietitian and that’s a little unique in the nutrition world. I went to Johnson Wales University and my degree is in Culinary Nutrition and then I went on to do my Dietetic internship. What I really have a passion about is educating about nutrition through food. So, what is it taste like? What is it look like? How can we make this to fit in with my nutrition? That’s really where my passion is what I do is I am a Culinary Nutrition Consultant. I have my own website and business JulieHarringtonRD.com where I write recipes, provide cooking tips and nutrition education. I do a lot of recipe development for myself and other brands and use a little bit of freelance writing and media work. My main thing that I really love to do is teach cooking classes. They’re very hands on and it really gets everyone involved and then I do some presentations in the community and some corporate role as well. So, a little bit of everything. So, when everyone asked me like “what do you do?” Ahmmm “A lot!”.

Mathea Ford: [00:02:15] Yeah! Where should I start?

Julie Harrington: [00:02:17] Yeah!

Mathea Ford: [00:02:17] Awesome! So, Let’s start with talking about being in the kitchen because I know that people tend to sometimes avoid cooking because either they didn’t do it when they were a kid; they didn’t see their parents doing it and that type of thing so they just lack confidence in their skills. What are some things that people are typically concerned about in the kitchen and how can they improve their confidence with those?

Julie Harrington: [00:02:45] So, a lot of the times this is what I really break down that barrier in the cooking classes as building that kitchen confidence back up. Because everyone starts somewhere. So, you have to just be confident of where your starting point is. What do you want to accomplish? Kitchen confidence can mean a lot of different things for many people. What happens is I ask some like “What do you want to start with? Do you cook at all at home? Do you own any kitchen equipment?” There’s some people who don’t even own a chef knives in their kitchen. That’s one barrier that we need to break. How you are going to start cooking if you don’t have the cutting board and a knife to start chopping. So, really just starting small and start where you’re at. I have some people who are really involved in the kitchen and they’re just looking for new ideas and new meal prep methods or recipes to work on. But if you’re starting with someone who doesn’t go grocery shopping on a weekly basis, relies on take out where can we start small to slowly incorporate these new kitchen habits and this kitchen confidence that you could actually make these the home.

Mathea Ford: [00:03:50] So, it’s really helping people to understand that there is a system, a process. Do you work with them on understanding recipes or how they work?

Julie Harrington: [00:04:00] Yep. So, I always say “Your recipe is a guide. You can put your own twist on it.” I have some people come to my classes that follow the recipe to a T to exact measurements at all times but I have some people who want to adjust their recipe based on their preference and it’s all about how you want to cook; how do you enjoy the experience. “Are you not confident enough to make those changes?” And that’s fine. I have some like friends says “My sister is super type A.” So, when she looks at her recipes she needs to follow it exactly whereas I’m a little bit more free spirited and I’m like “Ohh! A little pinch of that! Or maybe too into cooking time a little bit. I would like to add a new ingredient in there.” So it really depends on what your style is too.

Mathea Ford: [00:04:40] Me it’s usually like I look in the drawer and in this cabinet and I don’t have that spice so I’m like “what spice cannot be used that will fix it it will be the same…

Julie Harrington: [00:04:52] Exactly! And then sometimes it’s like the end of the week and you have random ingredients and you feel like you’re on an episode of Chopped. What can you do when you can’t get your ingredients.

Mathea Ford: [00:05:02] Yeah! Yeah! Chopped! Oh yeah! Thinking about that. Thinking about like knives, cutting boards, equipment to have in the kitchen, what are some basic things that people need to have or should have in their kitchen to be able to make most recipes? Equipment?

Julie Harrington: [00:05:20] You just need the essentials. So, a cutting board. Really the two knives that I do recommend everyone having is a utility or chef’s knife and a paring knife. We don’t need all those different like boning knives or Soulé knives. If you really.. You don’t need those fancy things you could accomplish that same task with a chef knife and a paring knife. I would say cutting boards are going to be doing some chopping. A couple different sizes of pots and pans. Keeping it super basic. You don’t a fancy pizza cutter. Just one woman was like “well, I don’t have a pizza cutter” and I’m like “a knife can cut that.”.

Mathea Ford: [00:05:59] Yeah! Yeah! They cut it before they invented the pizza cutters.

Julie Harrington: [00:06:02] Exactly!

Mathea Ford: [00:06:03] Yeah! So, that’s good to know that you can get started with just simple equipment. So, with meal prep if you’re thinking about getting your meals ready for the week or that type of process if you’re thinking ahead instead of like opening the door to the fridge and going “oh! I got chicken and broccoli. Okay. Get rid of jiggling broccoli. How do you make it easier. So I do offer meal plans as part of my services so if you really want to take the guesswork out of everything i pre populate a full meal plan for meal and degenerates into our grocery list you’re also able to customize. You can choose us. It is now based off of preferences or how many times you know you’ll be cooking. So, that’s always an option. But then when people tell me they never a meal plan or prep I’m like “Do you ever go grocery shopping? You are a meal planner.” Because you have to think about something that you want to buy to put in your kitchen. So, maybe you’re not thinking of the next step of “What am I going to make with that?” And that’s okay. But starting that wheel of thinking of “these food are going to be my kitchen. I bought a chicken. I want to make something with chicken.” You’re starting to me in a little bit. So, now what are the steps? The simple steps that you could maybe take to get it prepared a little bit more easily for the week? So, I work with a lot of clients and community presentations explaining that. That you don’t have to spend your whole Sunday making this grocery list and Googling and Pinteresting all these different recipes. Just finding ways to make it easier for yourself and having yourself ready to go for the week.

Mathea Ford: [00:07:38] Yeah I always have. As you said, we always think about trying to make just make sure that I have the basics in the kitchen and that they’re ready where I can use them instead of always planning meals because things always come up or I just…

Julie Harrington: [00:07:56] Or you get really good ingredients at the grocery store too. Like you fill up that were off your whole meal for that night.

Mathea Ford: [00:08:03] Right. You can’t call for pizza just because you don’t have onion.

Julie Harrington: [00:08:06] Exactly. Exactly.

Mathea Ford: [00:08:09] So, what does chefs know that other people don’t know about meal prep?

Julie Harrington: [00:08:13] You can cheat! You don’t have to buy everything fresh and like so for example sometimes I buy pre-cooked grains like the frozen Quinoa. If I don’t know like I’m no I’m going to be limited on time, I might buy it or I might prep the whole bag of Quinoa in advance so we have Quinoa for the week but they make frozen Quinoa and frozen brown rice and all these different frozen grains now. So, that really takes out the work there. Another little cheat method I do by the pre-portioned salmon fillets sometimes or the pre-portioned pieces of chicken. So, I only have to take out what I need. Little things like that you’d have to cook from scratch all the time. A lot of my meal prep tips come from just getting things started. It’s not necessarily cooking all your meals for the week. I actually don’t recommend that. You see these like pretty pictures on Instagram or Pinterest of these people. Pre-packaging and pre-portioning all their meals. It looks fantastic. Great but after eating the same thing over and over again each week you’re going to get bored of that food and what if you’re not in the mood for that food anymore? The ways that I like to say is like start the prep process because think about the brocolli that you buy you buy ahead a brocolli and now comes to be Wednesday evening that had a brocolli staring me in the face still wrapped themselves say with a rubber band around it and you get home from a long day. What’s going to happen on that broccoli? Probably, its going to stay there. So, the day you buy it, I trim it into the florettes, I wash it and then it’s ready to go in a produce bag. These little mesh produce bags I really love because they’re breathable and they’re not going to trap a lot of moisture in there and turn your produce quickly after you washed and prep them. So now, that brocolli Wednesday it’s trimmed in florettes. So now, that can be turned into a stir fry. You can easily steam it. You can just throw out in the planter roast. And he just took out all that prep time during the middle of the week.

Mathea Ford: [00:10:10] Yeah! It’s just that you’re not even knowing what you’re going to use that broccoli for but you know you need it in this condition in order to do the next thing.

Julie Harrington: [00:10:19] I did with a lot of lettuce, any of like the produce. Because that does take some time. We do have to trim things or maybe even throw a marinade in a mason jar that it will eventually go into something maybe chicken or tofu or some salmon but that’s just kind of a general Asian style marinade that I just threw in a mason jar. Oh go on something.

Mathea Ford: [00:10:40] Yeah! Or like I’ve cut up onions ahead of time. Dice them up, keep them in the freezer. And then when I’m already use them they fall fairly quickly. Same thing like green peppers. So …

Julie Harrington: [00:10:52] Oh It totally belies your freezer. So,again last week about raspberries at the Farmers Market and I didn’t go through them fast enough. Don’t waste them just freeze them and then come back to them later.

Mathea Ford: [00:11:05] Yeah they can. They’re so small they thaw easy or you could put them in a smoothie or something. So, that all can build up your confidence if you know you have instead of going “I’m not ready.” You can be like “Okay, I’ve got the ingredients here. Let’s look at them and make something. And the key is having your environment set up for that. If you don’t go food shopping for not putting these foods into your kitchen then how do you expect to do anything?. You’re going to open an empty fridge!

Mathea Ford: [00:11:35] Thinking about different ingredients that people use like we’re talking about raspberries and broccoli and that stuff what’s an ingredient you use a lot that other people would be surprised by?

Julie Harrington: [00:11:48] Two ways to answer this question. What I would like more of the culinary ingredient that I like to use a lot is chick pea miso. So miso is usually a fermented soy bean but this is fermented chickpea and they use it a lot to thicken sauces instead of making your Roux. And it also adds a really nice savory kinda taste to your dishes. That as come in, I use it in soup recipes though too instead of using broth sometimes because they’d always have it on hand and it’s fermented product. So, it has those benefits of probiotics. Unfortunately, when you heat it those probiotics get killed off. But I do use also in dressings to thicken up like a vinaigrette. So, that is not heated so that actually keeps those probiotic benefits. So, that’s normally got a unique culinary ingredient but a lot of times people are surprised that I do use boxed pancake mix. I’m not going to lie. I honestly love this whole grain Kodiak cakes. Have you ever tried that?

Mathea Ford: [00:12:50] No I have not.

Julie Harrington: [00:12:51] They’re really good and they’re just so convenient sometimes when I just want to make a quick like pancake or waffle or mash on a banana or something with it but it really just saves a lot of time.

Mathea Ford: [00:13:02] Yeah we use… Well, I’m in Oklahoma but we use Nesquik or Pioneer brands but to make pancake mix you don’t have to I guess you don’t have to have self rising flour because you can use baking soda, baking powder type stuff.

Julie Harrington: [00:13:17] On a weekday I’m not really in the mood to do that from scratch.

Mathea Ford: [00:13:21] Yeah.

Julie Harrington: [00:13:21] I’m not ashamed about it. Like I use these cheat methods all the time. People are like “You don’t cook from scratch all the time?” I’m like “I’m human. I have a busy life like I’m still eating great foods, nutritious foods it’s just I’m taking all these shortcuts.”.

Mathea Ford: [00:13:33] That’s an excellent methods to give people that it doesn’t matter if you use a few little things that help you if it’s going to mean that you’re going to at the end of the day eat more nutritious meal because you made it at home and you control the ingredients and you tailored it to what you wanted it.

Julie Harrington: [00:13:51] People feel a lot of guilt around food and we need to break that barrier if you’re fueling your body. I have one client recently like ashamed that she was using frozen vegetables and I’m like “Why? Frozen vegetables are fine! They are flash frozen. They’re actually locking in the nutrition” like I always want to focus on the food positives. There’s always a positive that comes as fueling your body and of course a vegetable it’s nutritious or why you feel guilty about that?

Mathea Ford: [00:14:17] Yeah! And you can have an all year long in they’re lower sodium.

Julie Harrington: [00:14:22] Exactly! Keep them stocked in your freezer to have them at any time.

Mathea Ford: [00:14:26] Yeah but I couldn’t understand how culturally maybe if she grew up that different. Any ideas for thinking about ingredients like shopping at Farmers’ Markets? You got any tips for people if they want to go to a Farmers’ Market how they might find good food?

Julie Harrington: [00:14:42] Pretty much anything you find in a farmer’s market is really great because it’s all going to be seasonal. Eating in season is really great to add variety to your diet when it changes each season. So, that’s always awesome and usually very affordable because it’s in season it’s readily available. It’s really coming from a short distance of travelling. I usually stock up a lot and then figure out ways to either freeze it or make it last a lot longer. So back to the berries, berries are so much more affordable this time of year, fresh berries. So, I usually buy like a big bulk fan of them and I’ll freeze them. Strategy now is to freeze them that I always tell everyone to do as you wash them and you dry them; find a sheet tray but put a line of parchment paper down first and then freeze them all in one layer. So, once they’re fully frozen then put them into little baggies or containers to put in your freezer. This prevents them from all clumping together and then you just have one big mass of berries or something all stuck.

Mathea Ford: [00:15:49] Oh that’s great! So then you can just take out a smaller amount instead of having the whole chunk. So, as long as you do it pretty quick you freeze them and then you take them out put them in the bag. They’re not getting the freezer burn or…

Julie Harrington: [00:16:01] Correct!

Mathea Ford: [00:16:02] Any sort of damage?

Julie Harrington: [00:16:02] Uhuh!

Mathea Ford: [00:16:02] Ohh! That’s a great tip! I love it! You have to spend that time right after you get home from the farmer’s market, get them cleaned up and freeze them and you’re ready to go for later.

Mathea Ford: [00:16:14] I have even done that with vegetables as well. People only think about that for fruit. I had a lot of zucchini leftover last week too that was starting to turn so, I chopped it up, I steamed it and I let it cool and then I did that same freezing process. And so the steamed zucchini I added it into a soup, I already threw it into a smoothie. I know if that is common with zucchini in the smoothie but its actually delicious. But you can turn your vegetables in to new ways as well.

Mathea Ford: [00:16:43] Great! Those are great tips! I think also going to a farmer’s market you get to talk to the people who grew the food or who are close to growing the food. And you can even learn more about different food in your area that you might be interested in. So, you may see something that you don’t see normally in the grocery store. You see it, you’re willing to try it and you’ve gotten a little more variety in your diet.

Julie Harrington: [00:17:07] Oh I totally agree! And it’s so nice to talk to them because they’re so passionate about what they do. And you just see that excitement and they are so proud of what they produced and what they’re providing that’s now going to be on your kitchen table.

Mathea Ford: [00:17:21] So knowing that you do a lot of meal planning, what are some meal planning strategies that you can share with the audience?

Julie Harrington: [00:17:29] So, again back to the you don’t to have every single meal figured out, just kind of have to think of different categories so I usually think about three dinners that incorporate a certain ingredient and how I can utilize the other ingredients to make other meals. So, for instance like that pack of Quinoa, I’ll make Quinoa purposely want to put it with maybe the salmon. How else can I use that Quinoa later on? Oh! I threw it on a salad for lunch or I actually mix it with oatmeal for breakfast. So, different ways to utilize that one product. You don’t have to eat a brand new thing every single day.

Mathea Ford: [00:18:07] When I managed the kitchen I would always write the menu and we would use the same chicken breast for five or six different meals. I wasn’t going to go buy you know bone in chicken, this type of chicken, that chicken just chicken breast and use it you know five 10 different ways or same thing with cuts of meat typically you know you can kind of cross. Use them in different recipes.

Julie Harrington: [00:18:33] Yeah definitely! Don’t be afraid to utilize leftovers. Another example recently. I made just a grilled chicken for one meal and that turned into two more meals – added to a salad for lunch and then we also cut it up and put it and made chicken quesadillas another night.

Mathea Ford: [00:18:51] Yeah! We had turkey last night for dinner and I was thinking I’m going to shredd that Turkey up that’s left and make like a little like you said like a sandwich type thing. So, how does meal planning even just doing the small simple changes how does that help someone to eat healthier?

Julie Harrington: [00:19:08] I think it takes away the stress around meal meal time just because you’re preparing your environment for you’re just preparing your environment. It’s like walking into a sporting game without any equipment on for that sport. You’re kind of like just winging it and like you’re going to get injured or you just kind of out in the open. What do I do now? So, the same thing goes to your kitchen environment and you want to have things stocked up so you can feel comfortable like walking in after a long day and I can put something together for dinner and just making sure that it’s something that you enjoy too. When people tell me “Oh! They’re meal prepping and they hate what they’re making. Why are you making it then?” Don’t force yourself to do something you don’t enjoy and you don’t like focus on making sure the meals are delicious something that satisfies you too. If it’s not satisfying you that’s not going to do anything good for you long term because you’re going to feel deprived.

Mathea Ford: [00:20:02] Yeah! You’re not going to want to eat that long term and you know thinking of healthier diet and we’ve talked a little bit about farmer’s markets and stuff and I know you help people focus on a more plant based diet or plant focused diet. Can you talk a little bit about that and how you can help people incorporate that more into their menu without necessarily being vegetarian?

Julie Harrington: [00:20:24] Yes definitely. So, I like the yes I’d definitely say that as well plant focused is it doesn’t mean 100 percent plant based but everyone can use a little more plants within their daily routine. A lot of times we talk about when we talk about plants people automatically only assume vegetables but we hear we’re talking about the fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds any plant product, whole grains or just regular grains in general. And I always like to challenge everyone to start with at least 50 percent of your plate being focused on plants and then try to even get to 75 percent of your plate focused on plants. So, different ways you can go about doing that is I don’t really like to say sneaking them in because I don’t like that kind of has a negative tone to it that you’re kind of hiding them. Kind of them where you can. Going back to that pancake mix that I like to use. I like to boost it up a little bit instead of just having the pancakes because I know that one can pancake using the batter is not going to satisfy me because there’s not enough fiber in there. So, I mash up a banana, I may add some blueberries in there. I like to smear some peanut butter on it instead of using maple syrup because now you’re incorporating more food groups and you’re also incorporating more plants and you have a more well balance meal out of it. So, the same thing goes for any meal. How can you fit in your plants without really needing to put any more effort in something that is enjoyable for you. Smoothies are such an easy way to add more plants. You can add more veggies into it, you can add chia seeds or flax seeds. First, another plant source focusing on again your dinner plate. A lot of times we lead with like when people say “what’s for dinner?” Everyone usually always leads with the animal source of protein “Oh! We’re having chicken!” Okay, but what else is with that? Let’s focus on the plants because a chicken shouldn’t be the star of the plate. That should maybe only take a little section of your plate but the rest can be focused on those plants.

Mathea Ford: [00:22:24] Once you start eating different plants and eating them more often you start to really enjoy them and the ways you can cook them. So, I love that.

Julie Harrington: [00:22:33] And also too adding more variety. What happens a lot of times too is we get stuck on the same things. Of course if you’re just munching on an apple every day for an afternoon snack like get that’s going to get boring after a while. But what if you’re not ready to change to a new piece of fruit? How many varieties of apples are there when you walk to the grocery store? Maybe even just trying to switch off the variety that you’re having.

Mathea Ford: [00:22:57] It’s a good tip. Speaking of the grocery store, when you’re grocery shopping I know you do probably a decent amount of this as well. Do you think it’s better to shop once a week or more often and how do you navigate the grocery store?

Julie Harrington: [00:23:14] I love this question because before I started my own business, I worked as a supermarket dietitian. So, my job was in the grocery store. I feel like I can navigate any grocery store really while now being in that kind of environment. So, when we’re talking about grocery shopping I really do recommend shopping at least once a week to get all your essentials for the week. I typically go maybe twice even three times a week just because my work requires me to where I’m like developing a recipe, I always need to buy some different ingredients and then what’s a typical day of pattern I’m needing. Navigating the grocery store, there’s all those things of saying “Oh only shop at the perimeter.” I don’t really agree with that. There are so many great things up and down the aisles as well. People always say “only the processed foods in the aisles” but processed is another word that we really need to start adding more of a positive twist. Not all processed food is created equally. There’s actually according to the FDA standards there’s all different levels of what processed foods are. So, peanut butter for example, that technically processed food. They’re taking peanuts, they’re grinding, they’re packaging and that’s processed. Your tuna, same thing but then also there’s the ultra processed foods that I don’t even know half those ingredients are. So, that’s a processed food as well. But all those items are in aisle so I don’t say skip the aisles. Really learn how to read a label properly working with a dietitian. A lot of dietitians offer grocery store tours so if you’re really confused maybe take that up as an option. So many times we are set in our ways we’re set in our same pattern of shopping at the grocery store. And I noticed that firsthand when I started working there. How many times you walk by all these great products but you don’t even notice them because you’re so on autopilot to get your grocery shopping done. Kind of take a moment. Maybe find some new food or new items that can appear in your grocery cart. I have a series called grocery store finds. Every month, I highlight about five products that just appeared in my cart. Just to say and to show people “Oh! This is the new products I found you might like it too.”.

Mathea Ford: [00:25:31] So, when you’re thinking about navigating the store, how do you recommend people go through? Because I’ve heard different things like do the produce last, like you said don’t do this in our aisles that type of thing but… So, how do you when you think about navigating, where do you recommend to start and kind of go through?

Julie Harrington: [00:25:51] I do recommend starting in the produce section. The groceries store is strategically set up in the way that it is for you to walk in and usually the first thing you go to is the produce department and you walk right into the produce department and there’s a reason for that. They want you to start getting a fresh produce but as a dietitian and a chef, I want you to really have your plants be the focus so starting with that fresh produce is fantastic. And then notice how you’re walking around the perimeter that’s where all of like you’re meat and your protein, your seafood department and then your dairy department. They want you had all those and not order because then at the end that’s when you get to the cashier where you’re putting all your cold stuff at the end. So, they strategically do that for you to shop that way. But I only just say start in the produce because again we want to be a little bit more focused and really just work up your grocery list. I don’t think there’s necessarily a foolproof method of we need to shop these sections first and last.

Mathea Ford: [00:26:56] So, do you ever do like the online ordering. I know that’s becoming more popular. Do you ever do that or do you think that’s a good idea?

Julie Harrington: [00:27:04] It really depends on the day, the week. I use the online grocery shopping a lot when I have my big cooking classes because number one and just saves me time. I don’t shop for a big family right now so I don’t mind doing my own personal grocery shopping on my own because it doesn’t take me that long but for busy families are online grocery shopping is awesome. At first, I was like “I like picking on my produce. I don’t want anyone else picking at my produce or I like picking out my meat or I’m very specific when it comes to certain things” but the grocery store near me does such a fantastic job. I just write little notes throughout my order saying for instance, like I got avocado the one day shop online. And I said please make sure that it’s ripe and ready to eat because I knew that I’d be needing it for a recipe the next day. I love it honestly because it saves you a lot of time and it really just depends on what your lifestyle is, what your preference is.

Mathea Ford: [00:27:59] I think it saves a little money too because you’re not walking up and down the aisles and going “Oh yeah! Maybe I should get, that maybe I should get that!”

Julie Harrington: [00:28:07] You can actually really stick to the grocery list. And also another cool thing about that is too that I come across coupons that I don’t even know were available at that moment or I’ll be shopping for something in they’re like “would you like to add this to dollar off coupon? Of course I will to save money!”.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:24] Yeah! Thank you. I always ask my guests what is their favorite food.

Julie Harrington: [00:28:30] Oh! This is always my hardest question to answer. But if there’s a food that I pretty much eat every day it’s peanut butter in some form. So I’m going to go with peanut butter as my answer.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:40] Okay! I’ve love peanut butter too it’s good. You like chunky, creamy or what?

Julie Harrington: [00:28:45] I always have both on hand. I honestly I guess I’m like a nut butter fanatic. I have right now I probably have at least four different jars opened.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:55] Well that’s very interesting. I just came back from the International Food Bloggers Conference and we saw some different foods. And one of them was a new nut butter that has sunflower seeds. It’s basically targeted towards people with peanut allergy.

Julie Harrington: [00:29:10] Is it sun butter?

Mathea Ford: [00:29:12] Sun butter! Yeah I think that is.

Julie Harrington: [00:29:13] Oh yeah! That one’s that I I used that in my kids’ cooking class a lot since there’s usually nut allergy.

Mathea Ford: [00:29:19] Yeah! That’s an awesome product that was really good. Does it have like Quinoa in it? I’m like crazy.

Julie Harrington: [00:29:24] There is one with Quinoa in it. That’s really cool.

Mathea Ford: [00:29:26] Yeah! So, There’s lots of varieties of nut butters doesn’t always have to be just peanut butter but yeah! I’ve just recently learned I did not realized that sunflower seeds are not necessarily like they’re okay for people with a peanut allergy. Julie, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. It was a pleasure to have you on the show. I know my listeners learned a lot about just different kitchen confidence, choosing different things and trying to spice up their diet a little. So, if listeners want to connect with you, what’s the best way to do that?

Julie Harrington: [00:29:59] You can find me directly from my website JulieHarringtonRD.com. I have a Contact page where you can directly e-mail me or on social media I am @chefJulie_RD.

Mathea Ford: [00:30:12] Great! Well guys, this has been another great episode of the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast that is all about learning more so you can do more with nutrition in your life.

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Nutrition Experts Podcast Episode 24 Men’s Nutrition Goals and Hospital Food By David Egerdahl

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David Egerdahl is a Registered Dietitian Nutritionist, Patient Services Manager and Nutrition Coach in Colorado Springs, CO.  His main passion is men’s diet and nutrition.  David is the Dietitian you see when you want to make gains in your, health, fitness, and life.  You can find David at nutritiongains.com where he offers a blog and nutrition coaching for everything from fat loss, muscle building, and better diet in general, to improving diet at work, eating for better mood, and men’s health.  He also loves speaking to large groups about a variety of nutrition topics to groups, on stage or on TV.  David believes good nutrition in not just important for improving and maintaining your health but also other aspects of your life from business/career, to finances, to family.  He also enjoys powerlifting, basketball, and Rick and Morty.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:27] Hi there! It’s Mathea. Welcome back to the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast featuring nutrition experts who are leading the way using food starts today right now with our next guest. It’s great to have Dave Egerdahl on the show today. Dave welcome Nutrition Experts. I’m excited to have you on the show and share your expertise with my tribe.

David Egerdahl: [00:00:49] No problem Mathea. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:52] So, Dave we’re going to talk today about a few different topics but I’d like to start with letting you tell my listeners a little more about you and what you do.

David Egerdahl: [00:01:00] So, right now I’ll wear a few different hats. I’m a Patient Services Manager in a hospital in Colorado Springs. Basically what that entails is managing not only the room service aspect but the nutrition aspect that goes a long list with dealing with all those different diets and menus and what not. I also do a lot of diet, nutrition, public relations stuff for the hospital like last week I was doing live television. Next week I’ll be doing a heart healthy event where I’m doing a cooking demonstration on how to cook Quinoa you know things like that. And then since I just can’t stay away from nutrition counseling and coaching, I do do some coaching on the side as a kind of I guess a side hustle you could say.

Mathea Ford: [00:01:51] Where do you go to school?

David Egerdahl: [00:01:53] University of North Dakota.

Mathea Ford: [00:01:55] Okay. So, you didn’t stray too far from home?

David Egerdahl: [00:02:00] Right!

Mathea Ford: [00:02:00] So, I think it’s interesting to talk about dietitians working in Patient Services. I did that almost my entire career and I love food service. So, I would love you to talk a little bit about what it’s like to manage a room service kitchen and what kind of room service like in a hospital? Because that’s maybe a new concept for people or maybe people have heard of it and they don’t understand how it works.

David Egerdahl: [00:02:27] Sure. It is you know I think in the past the expectation for hospital food has been you know I get my Salisbury Steak and dry mashed potatoes and some jello and that’s my meal. But yeah it’s changed a lot over the years where it’s a room service style the same sort of style you would see in a hotel where patients are calling down placing their order. And we have unique sophisticated systems to track allergies, track diet needs etc. and still allow them to get a pretty decent meal in the hospital while they’re getting better. It’s a whole complicated system with not just the you know the order taking but then you know the production of it and the delivery of it. There’s all kind of it’s new technology to help track delivery times and all these sort of things. So, it’s pretty cool, unique, complicated all rolled into one but it’s it’s a fun challenge to have.

Mathea Ford: [00:03:28] So, if I’m a patient in your hospitals do I have to pay extra to get room service versus just a regular tray?

David Egerdahl: [00:03:34] Absolutely not! No. No. And I’m sure the way it gets billed is different in every hospital but I know for us it’s just part of the stay. So, no, no it’s not extra. That’s that’s the price of admission is you get that perk.

Mathea Ford: [00:03:51] So, do patients have something in their room based on their diet? What they can eat? Or how do they know what they can order?

David Egerdahl: [00:03:59] In most places, in our place I’ll use my place an example. So, we have our regular menu and then so that takes care about 60 percent of the patients because that’s what we find are our regular menu in our hospital. And then we have diabetics which makes up the next bulk. And the way we communicate that to them is through the nursing staff to doctors they’re letting them know we’re pretty tight in your diet or such and such reason. Whatever that [00:04:24] AP [0.3] and sometimes is new to them which is it’s a challenge in itself. And then we have the carb counts and the menu so that that takes care and maybe another 20 percent and then another about 15 percent maybe on a heart healthy. So, we use ways to indicate whether a meal item or a menu item rather is heart healthy was little emblem next to it that’s heart healthy and that takes care about 95 percent of the diets the rest of them get a little complicated. So, we create special menus distribute those when we need to.

David Egerdahl: [00:04:58] And then along with that, the diet operators are trained in diets by a dietitian so they can help them along the way and Health Touch which is our just our system that we use to help with meal ordering gives all that information of what sodium, fat, carbohydrate whatever nutrient you want to be tracking for that patient is in there.

Mathea Ford: [00:05:20] They have a menu in their room and they call down. It seems to me like that would be more expensive for food service. So, is your hospital more of like a higher end hospital or is it more expensive to have room service than regular like trays that people just get automatically?

David Egerdahl: [00:05:40] Not necessarily. Once you have the infrastructure there it’s not much more expensive. I hope I’m not giving away any secrets but the industry standard for a tray cost is about a dollar and 80 cents. And we are below that. So, we’re offering these these menus and the reason why we’re able to do because we’re a relatively large hospital and so we can use kind of economies of scale to make food costs low, labor costs low and then the cost of operating overhead that gets eaten up just by the sheer volume that we do.

Mathea Ford: [00:06:16] I guess what I’m thinking is somebody on a clear liquid diet. Do they get to call then order room service?

David Egerdahl: [00:06:23] Yes. Yeah! We do that right. We have a whole list of clear liquids that are you know some your typical clear liquids like [00:06:31] Brock [0.4] and jello and those sort of things but then we you know we offer Gatorade or you know certain things that are you know not the typical liquid. And we try really hard to work with the docs and nurses on protocols where they don’t have to be on clear liquids all that long. Because the research is finding that you know people are doing pretty fine if they are given a kind of a la carte. You know allow them to order some regular meal items as long as they’re not too hard on the stomach or whatever unless it’s like a G.I. surgery then there’s definitely some special considerations there.

Mathea Ford: [00:07:10] You know I’m thinking I have a regular tray and it’s got all the food on it. Whether you wanted it or not it’s got you know a milk or coffee or tea, it’s got a dessert, it’s got the entrees, it’s got vegetable sides and when people called down I’m guessing they’re just ordering whatever they’re in the mood for. So, if all they want is a hamburger and some fries or whatever. They probably eat that more so than… You find that they eat better and that they you know have eat a better portion of their trays, less food waste?

David Egerdahl: [00:07:42] I don’t know that we really track that necessarily. So, the big thing that drives why a hospital would want a room service style dining is the personalization that it allows the patient. So, most hospitals measure patient satisfaction through a third party survey and there is a financial incentive for hospitals to have a high patient satisfaction score. And also it’s just good for the hospital to be rated high on that regard. So, room service style dining drives that when a hospital has room service style dining. Their patient satisfaction scores improved immensely compared to like the older you know “Here’s what’s for lunch of thing. Take it or leave it. Patients nowadays like to have a little bit more control what’s going on in hospital stay and food service and nutrition is a big part of that.

Mathea Ford: [00:08:40] Once you’re in a hospital there’s very little that you have control over and really being able to make some choices you know you don’t know when you’re going to get your surgery or you don’t know when people are going to come near into your room and talk to you or how long you’re going to be there. But having that choice would seem to be an excellent thing. So, is it I guess I didn’t get you to answer the question is it pretty popular in hospitals or is it still some that’s growing?

David Egerdahl: [00:09:08] It’s becoming the standard. It’s becoming something that most hospitals do. The reason why you wouldn’t maybe do that sort of style dining is because if you’re a 20 bed hospital and you know there’s just not enough folks to justify doing that sort of thing. You know it might not be for you but if you’re you know 150, 200, 300 and up bed hospital it’s very… It’s not only very cost effective, it’s very good on your you know the satisfaction of the patient or the quality of their stay.

Mathea Ford: [00:09:47] Something else you mentioned that you do at your hospital is like media relations, nutrition. So, how does that work how do you get those opportunities?

David Egerdahl: [00:09:56] Relationships. So, one of the things I love to do is speak in front of groups. I love to do that. I love to you know not just you know as a patient services manager, training, staffer or running a meeting but I love to talk to groups about various nutrition topics like I do a monthly once you learn from the hospital. The last one we did was you know healthy fats because you know pretty basic topic that the layperson doesn’t have a lot of information about. I Just love getting in front of people helping them in that way providing any guided or information I can give them and do it in a way that they can receive and is meaningful to them is really important. Just having that like I don’t do that necessarily because I’m going to get anything back. I just enjoy doing it and I find that you know what the more I do stuff like that the more people will notice and say “oh they might be good for this or they might be good for that.” So I get all these opportunities and I’m not shy either so I’ll stand in front of a camera. I’ll get on a radio station, I’ll do a podcast. Not a lot of dietitians I find have that outgoing personality. Least like the ones I’ve worked with in the hospital. They’re kind of a shy away from that but I’ve always enjoyed it. In my past I did a diabetic self-management. And the part of that was a monthly course that would talk to groups of people so I just sharpen my skills.

Mathea Ford: [00:11:26] I get you because I do love talking about nutrition and I do it all the time because I have this podcast. But I just love talking and hearing that interaction and being able to see what questions people have. Being able to explain things maybe more clearly than the quick snippet that they saw on a TV show or on the morning news or whatever. So, do you find you get asked a lot of kind of questions about what’s in the news and stuff when you’re on your presentations?

David Egerdahl: [00:11:58] You know some of the common stuff. You know what’s popular now so like Vegan Diets. I get asked a lot about that. I get asked a lot about keto. I get asked a lot. You name the sad I get asked about it. So, yeah you gotta be prepared for that. And then like if anything likes comes out of the news, people will ask my opinion of it or even if they’re just doing something kind of you know that I wasn’t even aware of. Like one time I was walking through the halls of a hospital and the media relations person said they’re doing a thing on strokes and “So, what’s your opinion on that?” I jokingly said “I’m against them. If you can not have those shows will be good.”.

Mathea Ford: [00:12:42] Yeah! You could avoid that.

David Egerdahl: [00:12:42] The more you put yourself out there I feel like the more that comes back to you. It’s like it’s not anything I’m necessarily like advertising that I do or promoting that I do but you know just being willing to do it creates those opportunities if you like.

Mathea Ford: [00:12:56] Yes! That’s a good tip for people that are listening that may want to do more of that is just to start seeing where you can do some small things maybe.

David Egerdahl: [00:13:06] And definitely starting out, I mean it’s you know some people like you know what they want to be compensated for their time. I think really does it start out that way. Usually it starts out you’re kind of volunteering or you’re doing it out of sheer enjoyment. And then it builds into that once you know you started building a fan base and a demand in all this stuff. So…

Mathea Ford: [00:13:26] From your perspective, one of the things that you like to talk about on your blog and we’ve talked about is how men and women’s nutrition is different. So, can you talk a little bit about that? About how maybe people could see that it’s different because I think it’s always interesting to get different points of view.

David Egerdahl: [00:13:49] The field is still pretty well dominated by women but it is just something I had a passion for. So, it’s what I decided I wanted to do. One of my first roles was a nutrition counselor. You know I would see diabetic patients, bariatric patients, renal patient here there and then one off in between. “Oh! I want to lose weight or I want to lower my cholesterol or stuff like that. So, I started to notice that whenever I would get a guy consult, it would usually be a situation where his wife was coming along and I feel like the guy always had kind of a standoffish like “Okay, it’s going to be me and the Mrs against him and the Mrs. against mee and I got you know I got to go through this kind of thing.” You know I started to notice that and I would “Why is that happening?” So I kind of did some research and you know typically guys it is changing a little bit. The guys you know when they’re trying to get healthy they don’t really seek diet as a means to do that, they might do more exercise or something like that but I started to approach relate to guys on a guy level. And you know I started to learn more about you know the differences in men’s nutrition and women’s nutrition. Basically, there’s no difference. All the nutrients that are essential for men are essential for women. There’s no difference there but where the differences come into play is you know a guy can get it all away with eating a little bit more food just because you know the differences in size so the calories are more. But also attitudes and preferences like men tend to be more meat eaters and that sort of thing. And you start to realize well maybe there’s a the reason for that. Maybe there’s for instance men produce much more testosterone than women and there’s a whole metabolism and nutrient need that goes around all of that. So you know what are those nutrient needs? And how can we provide those from there and then? And how can we let guys take control of their nutrition rather than kind of let the Mrs. handle that kind of thing? Once I started taking more reproach were like “Sir, I’m helping you. If you’re not interested in my help I understand but you need to take responsibility for your nutrition.” I got a better response from guys because I think part of that is I’m a guy as well but the other thing is like you know “I don’t have to eat which she eats” you know and you know that’s kind of the way it ends up going sometimes is whoever’s the cook in the family and traditionally it’s been the women. They kind of just put whatever and in front of the guy and he’s like “oh! This is what’s for dinner tonight now that I have to watch my blood sugar.” So, finding ways to meet guys’ food preference in a way that you know that’s not taken away their beer or whatever the thing is that they want to hold on to and men just tend to have different goals I think than women in health. Just you know working with people that I do have found that guys tend to have more they’re more concerned with you know how they perform, how they feel rather than like finding getting a weight loss resolved or what have you. Were women there that you know if the doctor tells of their blood sugar is high they want to correct that immediately on the spot. That’s a motivator for them. It’s not necessarily for guys and I know that’s surprising to hear. “If my blood sugar is high so what? What was that matter?” So now I’m get long winded here. But yeah that’s that’s kind of you know some of the basic differences I’ve noticed.

Mathea Ford: [00:17:24] I think it’s interesting because as a dietitian you know working for a long time I noticed a pattern to. I noticed that and I’m always happy when the spouse comes along because that way there’s not the friction of trying to change later and obviously it’s a generational thing a lot of times where the woman wife whatever does most of the cooking. But interesting to think about men’s weight loss calls differently are men’s nutrition health fitness goals whatever because when we talk to them it’s that switch that you’re talking about whereas finding out what they’re interested in changing. And as you said that I think about my husband because he’s gained a little weight and he constantly talks about how he doesn’t feel good and he wants to lose the weight. So, it is related to how he wants to feel. It’s not necessarily about the number on the scale. That’s a good thought for people to have when they’re talking to people just realize you know the perspective difference that’s an excellent point.

David Egerdahl: [00:18:34] Yeah! And that’s I would say that’s the main difference because when you really like boil it down and reduce it it’s you know we all need to eat healthy and that’s what the layers beyond that are just like well what is motivating this person to want to do that? Because people say “Oh I should do this or should do that.” Is that really what you want to do? You know when you really ask that question. Well, now, I’d really rather do this you know. So, it’s finding I guess you know what that motivator is and relating to it and finding solutions for.

Mathea Ford: [00:19:11] That just reminds me a little bit that I recently had a little bit of an epiphany thinking about how we think about goals as far as trying to get away from something vs. trying to go towards something. Because once you’re getting away from something then you kind of get a little more relaxed vs. if you’re trying to go towards something. For example at A1C number or something like that. You’re more apt to reach it because you’re going for that number instead of trying to avoid something. Can you talk a little bit about dietitians do nutrition counseling? Typically, I see a lot of nutrition coaching. Can you tell me a little bit about what you think is the difference between those two and how you approach it?

David Egerdahl: [00:19:57] From a practical standpoint from the nutritionist. There’s really no difference. You’re still doing an assessment. Still coming up with some sort of nutrition diagnosis and then following up and monitoring you know when I try to think of some good differences, I know that when I was in a counseling role I was seeing more diabetic more, bariatric, stuff that was covered by insurance. So, they were referred to by a physician to me and you know that’s that whole game coaching you really is more like you know “I got a goal and I knew I really need somebody’s help to get there” whether that be you know in terms of a nutritionist, whether that’s just eating healthy or weight loss or gaining muscle or whatever it is. I guess that would be the main difference.

Mathea Ford: [00:20:48] If someone is getting nutrition coaching you seem a little bit more like not necessarily having goals of medical or lab related stuff but more just personal weight or fitness or something like that? Is that what you’d say?

David Egerdahl: [00:21:04] I think that’s fair to say. I think that’s fair to say. I think especially in a hospital setting for example which I don’t know. I kind of think of it as nutrition counseling but some may not. That’s a captive audience. They may not necessarily want to see you but you know if you’re putting yourself out there as a coach and you’re saying you know I’m offering this service for you if you’d like you’re getting somebody who maybe a little more motivated. Maybe you know has a goal in mind where you know that counselor or that person that’s the doctors you know forcing them to see a nutritionist or whatever. They might have a goal. They may not even be ready for change just yet. So, you got to kind of you know if you can try to figure out how to get them from there.

Mathea Ford: [00:21:51] Yes. Since you deal a lot with the healthy diet in the hospital and then working with people doing different things. Can you talk a little bit to the audience about how a healthy diet is different from a weight loss diet? Because I think a lot of times people think “I’ve got to get on a diet to lose weight and then I could eat differently whenever I’m done losing weight” I guess. So can you talk a little bit about that?

David Egerdahl: [00:22:18] The thing I’ve noticed is that you know people are using healthy diet and weight loss diet synonyms and which they can be at times. But you start to see some of the stuff that people are you know doing to try to lose weight are not necessarily the healthiest things point to any fad. And you can just you couldn’t. You can see well that might not be sustainable long term. You might end up having some trouble with that in the future. I remember one time going on TV they asked me to talk about diet cleanses, these liquid cleanses. I think they fully expected me to say something different that I did say because I you know I pretty much put him down as these are not a healthy sustainable way to lose weight.

David Egerdahl: [00:23:06] And essentially the weight you’re losing during that week of clenses is water weight. So, if you’re using that as a means of weight loss you know I don’t think that’s the most effective or efficient means. And then you also look at the fitness industry and you see these very fit people like fitness competitors and bodybuilders and stuff like that and they you know it’s assumed that these people must be doing you know they must have the healthiest lifestyle, the healthiest diet and a lot of things they do are very healthy, a lot of things they do are very extreme and very taxing on the body and not always the best for oneself.

Mathea Ford: [00:23:41] Sometimes, I think everybody should consider that they should be on a healthy diet whether they’re trying to lose weight or not.

David Egerdahl: [00:23:48] Right. Anything any health behavior you do is going to you know whether it’s taking a medication or follow a diet protocol or do an exercise program. It’s going to have some side effects whether good or bad. We can point all the side effects medications but you know their side effects associated with certain diets. If you start to exercise program that you’re not acclimated towards you’re going to have some pretty serious side effects you’re going to be very sore. You’re going to feel stress. You’re going to feel like you don’t want to do this. And there’s probably a reason that your body’s not ready for it. So, when I see things like you know people wanting to do Keto or people wanted to do fasting or you know I encouraged them to anything. “Okay. You know I’m not against you trying that but I want you to consider you know is this something you’re going to be able to sustain? And if not what do you plan to do once you’re done with it?” Because we all know about the yo yo diet syndrome and that’s essentially not having a plan for once your diet fails. That’s basically you know these protocols you know you see a lot of research and there’s research really to back up anything as long as you have strong enough belief about it. And there’s research to disprove it but it’s just a matter of what are you doing why are you wanting to do that? And what’s your plan B? Because if you’ve ever done a low carb diet before and you try it for a week or two or a month and you decide “this is not for me” what’s your plan B? Because that’s pretty typical is that you know people try something like that go strong for a month and then it falls apart.

Mathea Ford: [00:25:34] Being in Colorado, we all know Colorado has recreational and medical marijuana. I would just be interested what you see people using medical marijuana for that seems to be pretty effective with relations to any sort of nutrition stuff. You got any ideas about that?

David Egerdahl: [00:25:53] Typically what I see people using like edibles or smoke marijuana for is either like for a while is doing oncology inpatient nutrition and you know that’s something that’s very popular. The folks who are going through that sort of treatment it’s just like another thing it’s just like curcumins and it’s just like another thing where people you know they’ve latched on to this you know the benefits of this one single thing. And they you know build products around it to try to you know sell it basically. I got to be honest I’m not too up to date on all the research of it because I think a healthy lifestyle doesn’t necessarily need to include marijuana even though I live in Colorado. I’m probably going to alienate a lot of people in Colorado but I don’t think it’s you know it’s a cure all. I’m sure there are some benefits to it because you know you know it’s being used but I don’t know that you know that’s something I can confidently tell people you should try this because I think it’ll help you with XYZ.

Mathea Ford: [00:27:04] Okay. So, one of the questions I always like to ask my guests is what is your favorite food?

David Egerdahl: [00:27:11] Pizza.

Mathea Ford: [00:27:13] Pizza. Any specific pizza?

David Egerdahl: [00:27:15] No! Just pepperoni pizza is my favorite food. I know that’s probably you know something you don’t expect a dietitian to say. But we’re human too. We eat what we like. We like pizza and chocolate and occasional alcoholic beverage. So, I will say that I’ve tried to make more of a traditional style pizza these days where it’s more of a thinner crust, more heavier on the on the fresh ingredients maybe like I’ve tried one recently with goat cheese rather than like a mozzarella because it’s a little bit lower in fat than some roast cheeses out there. So, it’s my vice. I won’t lie. I try to eat healthy 80 to 90 percent of the time but if there’s a pizza party going on I’m going to party for sure.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:06] It’s got all the food groups. Right?

David Egerdahl: [00:28:07] No! I hate that too. I hate when people say to justify. Just accept that it’s not healthy. And that’s okay. Okay? That’s all right. That it’s not healthy.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:19] All foods can fit.

David Egerdahl: [00:28:20] Yes. But I don’t like when you know. Well, Chocolate’s healthy right? Because if you got the dark chocolate. Yeah, you know. Yeah, dark chocolate is great but have you had actual real dark chocolate? Do you really like it? Because I would venture to guess that if you had a 100 percent cocoa that you’re not too into it.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:42] Yeah! That would be very bitter.

David Egerdahl: [00:28:43] But just just just be okay. Oh that’s another thing I like is people don’t put too much pressure on themselves to feel like that they should eat away or they have to eat away. And if they don’t that it’s some sort of they’ve committed some sort of sin. Just be ok with that. Just allow it. And part of taking care of yourself is allowing you know getting the nutrients you want or need rather but also allowing yourself to enjoy some of the things you do like. I mean don’t don’t make it a lifestyle obviously but I mean don’t don’t beat yourself up if you had some cheesecake you know because it’s fine. Don’t let that ruin you.

Mathea Ford: [00:29:26] Gotcha! I love that because if you can add a little bit of mindfulness and portion you know just getting enough to really satisfy that urge and then let it go. That’s a great way to still get those things you want.

David Egerdahl: [00:29:42] I like to use the term love. We should we should love ourselves and you know what kind of ways do we love ourselves. Well, what kind of ways do we love others. We cook for them. We keep them warm, we give them gifts. You should be doing those things for yourself too. You should be putting the stuff in you that is good for you and allowing yourself some of those things that are you know delicious but not so good for you and you should be allowing yourself to have breaks and things like that. You know the things that we do to love others we should be doing for ourselves too so that we can love others better.

Mathea Ford: [00:30:15] That’s excellent point. Dave, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. It was a pleasure to have you on the show. I know my listeners learned a lot about Room Service, menus, all the different stuff we talked about today. So if listeners want to connect with you what’s the best way to do that?

David Egerdahl: [00:30:32] On Facebook. Nutrition Gains with Dave Egerdahl. I’m on Twitter David E RDN. And then I have a website NutritionGains.com where people can find me.

Mathea Ford: [00:30:43] Okay. Well, guys this has been another great episode of the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast that is all about learning more so you can do more with nutrition in your life.

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Nutrition Experts Podcast Episode 23 Award Winning School Lunches By Putting Kids First with Deborah Taylor

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Deborah Taylor, RDN/LD, SNS is a long time school nutrition professional. She has spent over 20 years working to bring healthy food to kids in public schools. She has won awards, been recognized nationally and recently was given the Distinguished Alumna Award from her Alma Mater.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:28] Hey there! It’s Mathea. Welcome back to Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast featuring nutrition experts who are leading the way using food starts today right now with our next guest. It’s great to have Deborah Taylor on the show today. Deborah, welcome to Nutrition Experts. I’m excited to have you on the show and share your expertise with my tribe.

Deborah Taylor: [00:00:48] Thank you! I love getting the chance of getting to be here. I am a registered dietitian and I’m Registered Dietitian/Nutritionist. It is a great field and I’ve gotten have a lot of fun in it.

Mathea Ford: [00:01:00] Yes! So, we’re going to talk today about school nutrition but I want you to start with telling my listeners a little more about yourself and what you do and I know you have a long career. So feel free to call it more about you.

Deborah Taylor: [00:01:16] Okay. Thank you. I went back to college as a grown up that my husband was in was drafted into the military back in the day. So, that tells you how old I am. And after him being in the service for three years then he said one day hey I think you should go to college with me. And it’s like “Whoa! We can’t afford that.” And he said “we’ve lived on so little money for so long I think we should try.” Best gift he ever gave me and obviously financially it was that great. It was a nice thing for the two of us too. So, we started at Oklahoma State University and yeah go pokes! And again we kind bleed orange around here. Excellent dietetic program that was called [00:02:04] Feds [0.2] Nutrition and Institution Administration. The hotel and restaurant… They had the Hotel and Restaurant Administration degree at the same place. So I got to learn. We all learn that as a dietitian. We learn that service management. And I got to have that kind of creativity that can that sometimes hotel folks, restaurant folks have that sometimes those of us that are trained more institutionally we lack. And for me that’s been a big help. I’ve fed kids. Different jobs I’ve had because we moved a lot was at the beginning. I’ve fed kids at Oklahoma State University but also at Texas Christian University down in Fort Worth. And I think that college and university feeding is a really fun place to do food service management if you know people haven’t thought about that. The deal was it didn’t have anything to do with nutrition and that also… Anyway, I ended up taking I’ve said I’ve done some things with long term care facilities and things but and I’ve been a research dietitian when were in Louisiana. That was fun for a little brief period. And my favorite job was working with family practice residents in [00:03:24] Port Barre. [0.4]

Deborah Taylor: [00:03:25] With that job then I worked out to work out of an office working with patients who were sometimes low standard readers. They were mainly poor and I got to use my Spanish which was fun. And then I also got to keep up with the real in-depth things because I was the nutrition resource person for the family practice residence. It’s a job like for me I could have done that my whole life and been very rewarded and fulfilled with my career path. But we moved again. So, though after a couple of places we ended up in the Oklahoma City area specifically in Shawnee at that I was working with Weick and enjoyed that and had been doing it for nearly a year. And I got a phone call asking me to apply at Chinese schools to be their food service director and I said “oh that sounds like fun” and in two or three years maybe when my youngest at that time was 4 years old and I knew what food service management careers were like. They’re all encompassing. They said “oh these jobs come open very often. The lady that’s retiring right now was there twelve years and the one before that was 18 years.” And I said “Oh! Well, I guess I can apply.” And so I applied and I was the one that was given the position. And I ended up being at Shawnee Schools then running their food service operations for 22 years. After 22 years then Oklahoma City Schools called and asked if I would apply there. They had decided to move back to self op from self operations from a food service management company. They then hired Kevin Ponce from Mid-Del school and Nate from Shawnee school. Nate is the director and I was the associate director and I did that for four years and then I just retired from school. So I don’t feel retired yet at all. And I will be looking to doing teaching and training things continuing that part of what I do with my life. So having to do with school. So, school nutrition is a very intense and different field that it is a great place for registered dietitian.

Mathea Ford: [00:06:00] I have you know I’m a food service dietitian too. I went to see huge food service school and food service on cooking. So, I know that while you’re at Shawnee you have special recognition with some of the Michelle Obama Initiative. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Deborah Taylor: [00:06:22] My program in about 2006 I believe was featured in Time Magazine as one of the ones who followed all the rules, did not take money from outside sources and did a better job than what we had to do nutrition wise. And then when Michelle Obama was writing her book American Grown then my Farm to School Program there at Shawnee was featured on a whole page of her book American Grown is one of the stories of one of the things that we did with farm to school and Shawnee schools. In 2014 my favorite award because it’s so not in school nutrition where I’m with people that know me and know they can actually grade and judge what I’m doing in my field. I was chosen by Oklahoma State University my college there as I got the Distinguished Alumni Award.

Deborah Taylor: [00:07:31] And that was a very big surprise to me and it was a nice verification that school meals are important. And that the work that I had in doing was important and was perceived as important by the people that provided that education for me in the first place. So, I was also District Director of the Year for the State of Oklahoma. And that then I was awarded that award also for the region which is a 6A Region. I was in the right place in the right time. And I look at other dietitians and go see it was a good thing to be doing. When you get out of this state like Oklahoma let’s say in Georgia. Georgia is a prime example of that wonderful things in school nutrition services. Every daddy is a director has to have a master’s degree or be a registered dietitian. So… But they also have school districts that are the entire county and not all these little bitty school districts like we have.

Mathea Ford: [00:08:40] You know you kind of sit there at the end. But I think it’s really important to acknowledge that you love what you’re doing. we all we all have friends about different things and you are passionate about school food service in school. And those kids get them try new things. I always say “thank goodness for the way they do. School Nutrition because my kids tried a variety of foods and now they come home and I have hand them on the plate or whatever and go eat it.

Deborah Taylor: [00:09:13] Yes.

Mathea Ford: [00:09:13] Instead of me having to throw all through that. They saw their friends eat it. They saw their peers eat it. They thought “Oh! I can try it.” But they did learn to like it.

Deborah Taylor: [00:09:24] I was too busy buying food, planning menus, hiring peopl, training people, making, running the big food service operation. And then the hidden part of school nutrition is all the governments. It’s a huge government program. So you have free in latest mail application and you have computer systems that you have to buy that you have to train your people on that keep kids in categories. You’ve got all of the big stuff going on. So, as I thought when I took the job. “Oh and that’ll be able to do nutrition education with these kids and go in the classroom” or you know I just had this idea that I’d be able to do actual nutrition education with kids. In 22 years, I had three days that I got into classrooms and about three days. I mean that’s like nothing right? It’s because the job is so huge. I did my level best with the actual foods that I was buying that I was providing for them then that’s how I feel like I got to provide nutrition education to all of the kids in Shawnee.

Mathea Ford: [00:10:44] So, I know you did some other wonderful things in Oklahoma City. So, specifically, you got some grants to provide a free meals. So, can talk a little bit about that?

Deborah Taylor: [00:10:57] A big huge part of the Federal Child Nutrition Program is that we provide meals at no charge to kids who don’t we have very much money. And so in order to do that most of your school districts out there the kids every year as part of the enrollment process are there is a application for free and reduced meals. And it’s a family application now. Several years ago as part of the Paperwork Reduction Act then the government folks started looking at all of these free and reduced meal applications that they have to be done every year from scratch starting over. It is a huge amount of paperwork. And then every single time a child walks in and gets a meal then we have to count that child. And what category they’re in. In order to claim reimbursement for those meals. So, there we had these huge paperwork and computer requirements and that’s what we’re audited on. Nobody ever audited me on how good that feed was. How much the kids were eating? How they set the ball. The different things that I did were. Well, that is part of the auditing process at all. Several others said “why why do we have to do all this?” So, because the poorest kids are the ones that were trying to make sure have food. Then they came up with with a provision that is called Community Eligibility Provision. Also named CEP. Now those of you guys that have been in the know so we work that with school nutrition we’ve had provision 1, 2 and 3 as the options since the late 1990s I believe. They are there and that they help the little bit. This originally was called provision 4. Nobody knew that we had 1, 2 and 3 so they they gave the name Community Eligibility Provision.

Deborah Taylor: [00:13:04] And the idea is that if you have kids who are getting things like SNAP benefits, [00:13:13] Tanaiste benefits, [1.2] Indian Commodities Food PIR or FDPIR depending on your tribe. Their families have already provided and done a lot of paperwork in order to get that. So, if your community when by your community we start with the individual school site. If your school site has at least 40 percent of the kids in that building that get that benefits or one of these other government benefits then you can apply for these Community Eligibility Provision and and stop doing the free and reduced meal applications and start keeping track of each child by category. So that is what Community Eligibility Means. It means that the community that you’re providing to already has shown that it’s poor enough to have to provide all of the meals at no charge. And then what you do it’s like a game and I do love games. And so you begin, you are allowed then to combine school sites together and your reimbursement is based on how many of your kids get SNAP benefits and the other benefits that fall into this. The majority are the SNAP benefits and then how many then you can get as many school sites together as possible and you can do it a year allowed it. Any school district can do it. That means that 40 percent requirement in the first place that you have to decide “can I afford to do it?” To me it never made any difference to the child I was feeding. If their daddy was a millionaire it didn’t matter if they were spending a million to that they mainly because of health problems or whatever that child may not have lunch money.

Deborah Taylor: [00:15:21] And then what am I supposed to do? What’s my manager supposed to do if they’ve run out of money and they are in their accounts? Then, everybody talks about shaming kids and that type of thing. It’s like “wait a minute! The way the system is set up parents have to send money or their kids don’t get to eat.

Mathea Ford: [00:15:42] What happened is you said you were able to combine schools. So, at some point you provided free meals to the entire school not just that 40 percent that qualify. Correct?

Deborah Taylor: [00:15:54] Right! Okay, so yes. So, in Oklahoma City the very first year that I was there is the first year that CEP Community Eligibility Provision was available for all of the states in the United States. They had done pilot states leading up to it. And so my first year there we got 55 of our 80 schools. We got 55 of the schools onto the Community Eligibility Provision. It was amazing. That was two thirds of our children. Then I was able to do the math, point out that I felt like we could make it financially. And we got all of the school sites on to the Community Eligibility Provision. Last year was the first year that we had that in Oklahoma City schools. So, the entire Oklahoma City School are on the Community Eligibility Provision and that means we go no kids have to fill out a free and reduced meal application. That means in Oklahoma City it’s our largest school district in Oklahoma. We had an entire building that housed Free and Reduced meal applications.

Deborah Taylor: [00:17:11] When I started working there there was a whole building that was filled with free and reduced meal applications. It was unbelievable. I mean when people don’t work in this field they would be shocked at how much paperwork this program can arrange. The only purpose in it is keeping kids in categories so that we make sure we don’t claim too much money for a child who’s maybe their family makes 80,000 a year and the cutoff was 60,000. It’s like “who cares?” I honestly think that we should be at the point in the United States of America that when kids go to public schools they get a healthy meal. That’s part of what their day includes. We don’t find out the how rich or poor they are in order to ride a school bus. We don’t say we only give textbooks to the poorest kids and all the rest of you. We need you to come up with the money to buy it. Public school is public school. And I think that a healthy meal, a healthy lunch and now just because we know how much better children learn when they do eat breakfast. And I think having them start the day with a healthy breakfast and let’s just pay for that. But then the money that we’re spending on computers and on paper work let’s spend that money on food and just provide these meals for kids.

Mathea Ford: [00:18:43] So, if somebody’s a dietitian in school nutrition working maybe they’re new and they knew that atleast 40 percent of their community was even eligible for these free and reduced lunches. This might be a program that they should start giving in to. Is that what they can do?

Deborah Taylor: [00:19:03] Yes. And all of that data is available online. I can look and see what your kids, I know what school district your kids go to let’s say. And I can go online and look at the not just the whole district and what these numbers are for the district that I can look at each individual school building and see what each school building. Yes. And this is available to everybody nationwide. And it’s on USDA’s website. I believe for the state of Oklahoma, it is also on the State Department of Education – Child Nutrition Program website. We talk about the hunger and hungry kids a lot. And that like I already said that’s just because your parents have enough money does it mean that there are times that child doesn’t have food for whatever reason – moms on a diet, parents are both busy working. Whatever your financial status is if you’re a child and you’re hungry that day you’re not going to learn at the rate that you would learn if you had ifood in your stomach. And we as dietitians, we also look to the big future like how healthy are they going to be when they’re 55 and 60? But I can tell you in school. So, probably they don’t care about that. They care about how the kids are doing today in school and the fact is when kids eat more healthy food and they eat food period they do better in school, they learn better. Specifically, surprisingly in Math by providing school meals at no charge then that means that none of the students have to be embarrassed about eating school meals. And it means that all the kids no matter what their statuses at home they get to have a meal without worrying about it. They will get breakfast they will get lunch every single school day.

Mathea Ford: [00:21:06] I know something else that you guys did that was very kid focused and here in Oklahoma which we both live in Oklahoma we had a teacher strike for a couple of weeks.

Deborah Taylor: [00:21:15] Yes. Yes.

Mathea Ford: [00:21:18] My school district set up some sites where kids could go to get meals but what you guys did was amazing. So, I’d like you to talk about that.

Deborah Taylor: [00:21:29] Well. That was the teacher walk out and we acronymed it to TWO. And I was so proud of Oklahoma City school, the Transportation Department which is the best thing. Their administrators and then Child Nutrition Program worked together so well and we took food out. All of our employees were still on contract so they came in to work and they kept on making food and we took it out. Nobody came to the school building to eat. We drove it out in school buses, in the vans to all these different parks, all these different and several places that provide child care. They weren’t expecting to have kids all day long. So, we took meals to those places. Community like YMCA. I am going Brain-Dead with that many of community thing and including some churches that had children you know that kept kids.

Mathea Ford: [00:22:36] They opened up. Yeah!

Deborah Taylor: [00:22:39] And so we were able to provide lunch for them. All anybody had to do was call and say “hey! We’re over here at Highland Park area and we’re doing we’re feeding 25 kids. I mean we have 25 kids that we’re watching every day. Can you bring us 25 lunches?” And it was like “yes! We’re on it!” And we did that with them for the whole two weeks. It was really really amazing.

Mathea Ford: [00:23:09] Yeah! I mean like what if what parents had to go to work and the kids at home and yes, they can cook for themselves but you came right to their bus stops. And yeah. I’m sure it took quite a bit of just working together in community. But yeah that was I was just really impressed with that because it is really child focused.

Deborah Taylor: [00:23:34] Yes.

Mathea Ford: [00:23:35] All right! So, awesome stuff that’s been fun. There’s always an opportunity to do more stuff. But can you tell me some of the things that are special about school nutrition food that makes it healthier? Because these are some of the things that I’ve been very surprised to try.

Deborah Taylor: [00:23:54] Okay.

Mathea Ford: [00:23:54] There like cereal or milk or whatever you’d like to talk about?

Deborah Taylor: [00:23:58] Okay, so first of all, you know we had the pyramid for a long time but then it got switched to my plate which is much more user friendly for just normal folks. If you take the My Plate that USDA put out and you change it to a tray and we call it My Tray in school. Then each one the the different sections of My Plate is covered on in a school meal. So, we have the protein section, we have the grains section, all of the grains there is okay. School meals by requirement before Michelle Obama came in to place so it’s not fair to blame her for bad food. That’s not fair. Okay? Because you know that. She did emphasize school meals and some of the regulations that everyone had to begin doing were instituted faster than maybe they should have because people have to get used to changing especially in the way that they eat. So, at Shawnee like I already said at Shawnee we’re already doing most of these things already. So, our kids had no problem transitioning. My lunch ladies they cook and prepare and serve these meals. They had no problem in switching because we were already doing most of this stuff. So, in the grains now, everything has to be whole grain rich which means that at least half the grain in that product is whole grain. So, we can’t buy white Pasta, we have to buy whole pasta that’s at least half wholegrain. So, every single bread product bread type product is going to be wholegrain rich on a school meal. It may look like that we have whole wheat now right? That’s something at Shawnee, I had the brown bread since 1994 and then transitioned from Brown wheat bread to 100 percent whole wheat way back in the 90s. And and so we chose not to go use quite whole wheat because I thought it was important to let people know by looking that they were getting whole wheat and we had kids ate it without any problem. And then I found out later that they were telling their parents that’s what they wanted to buy at the store and that was like validated everything I done with school meals. Because that’s my point is that people make better choices at home and throughout their lifetime. With choices that I made for them at school. So, then we have fruit and vegetables for all these years until the changes in 2010. Then we had fruit and vegetable as a combination. Well, if you remember the Dietary Guidelines for Americans they change every five years they’re updated and school meals have to follow what the dietary guidelines are. Well, they said “they’re your vegetables” because in looking at doing studies the maturity of the biggest vegetable piece that people not just children but people in America eat is can you guess?

Mathea Ford: [00:27:21] Lettuce? Or does that even count?

Deborah Taylor: [00:27:24] Yes that does count that. Okay. It is French fries. Not potatoes but french fries specifically.

Mathea Ford: [00:27:33] I didn’t think about French Fries as vegetable so that’s why…. .

Deborah Taylor: [00:27:36] Yes. Yes. Because as dietitians we think of that as how fast that how much and how fast it makes blood sugar and the Glycemic Index that type of thing and so we automatically put potatoes in the starch. Right?

Mathea Ford: [00:27:52] Right!

Deborah Taylor: [00:27:53] In school meals, potatoes have always been a vegetable. And of course they grow like a vegetable. If you check out all their other vitamins and minerals that are in potatoes they’re definitely a vegetable. Yes, they are a vegetable.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:06] So, I agree they vegetable. Never even crossed my mind. Okay.

Deborah Taylor: [00:28:11] Yes. Yes. So French fries and of course I mean I guess you could argue that french fries do have a little some of their earlier vitamins and minerals so let’s do them. But usually when things are fried at 450 degrees it like kills most of that pretty quickly. And they’re skinny. You know so it’s it’s not like a baked potato where you’ve got this whole potatoes stuff – all flat in everything else inside of there you know. It is right. So, that’s where the They’re Your Vegetables came in. And so what they did in school meals was divide vegetables into five different categories that were required in schools to provide every week. And they audited on this on this very carefully. One is the starchy vegetables, one is the dark green vegetables and with each of these they’re on they have the things on the list when its legumes and we know that Americans need to eat way more legumes that we eat that’s the dried peas and beans. One is red orange vegetable and one is then Other – the other category. Anything that didn’t fall into the first four falls in the other. So, that’s cucumbers, then cauliflower and surprisingly cabbage and green beans because dark green there are certain things that are dark green that don’t give us the volume and advantage that they’re wanting you to get in the dark green leafy. It doesn’t but it says dark green. So, broccoli is a dark green but green beans aren’t. Okay? So, the main thing is that you can see this gets pretty complicated. So, we have whole pages of list of vegetables and we are required we can’t leave out the other. You have to provide a half a cup of other vegetable every week and you have to provide a half a cup of each of the different vegetable groups and there they have all kinds of rules and regulations that you know to try to make it so that each child has options of making sure. Like if you have a separate sandwich line. That Sandwich line has to have all five different categories every week. The kid eats off the sandwich line every day, it’s real easy to just put in baby carrots and lettuce and onions for their sandwiches but then they’re not going to get any legumes and they’re not going to get any starchy vegetable. Right? So…

Mathea Ford: [00:30:58] You got to be creative.

Deborah Taylor: [00:31:00] Yes, you have to be creative and you and is it that fun you know.?

Mathea Ford: [00:31:05] Well, I can’t think about…..

Deborah Taylor: [00:31:08] Really? Who wants a boring job. Right?

Mathea Ford: [00:31:11] Yeah! Menu planning to make your cycle menu though. So, I remember doing it in school and thinking I would hate it forever and then I went into food service. I’m like “Oh yeah! I’m going to do cycle menus for the rest of my life.”.

Deborah Taylor: [00:31:26] And thats true.

Mathea Ford: [00:31:28] So, can you talk about some specific food that maybe a little different than like what you would find on the shelf for anything that you use in school food service?

Deborah Taylor: [00:31:36] Okay so then, now then with each school meal. We have to prove the nutrients that are on each tray that we have planned. And so we have what is called CN label – Child Nutrition Label. And so when we buy when you see pizza. Kids love pizza, grown ups love pizza. When you say pizza we in schools, I can’t just make out any old pizza and put it out there just because kids love it. On my pizza, first of all the grain on it, the crust has to be whole grain rich. And then each piece has to provide two ounces of protein to the kids and then I can do some extra things like if I order pizza that has more sauce on it then I might be able to say that it’s also gotten a cup of vegetable. If it’s a Pizza Supreme has you know that has the some peppers and onions and a little bit extra sauce. One of things I would like kids to leave school doing is not giving in ranch dressing which is that subtle. Right? That dipping in to Marinara sauce and eating more because that’s tomatoes and that’s good for it. So, let’s learn. Yeah let’s step our pizza that let’s dip it in Marinara and then think about the good things that are in that Marinara sauce. The same with salsa, onions that’s the big huge change in the last 25 years I’ve done this. When you said Tex is much more Mexican food all of us eat and South of the Border. Yes. So, whatever name we want to give it.

Mathea Ford: [00:33:29] Tex-Mex. Yeah.

Deborah Taylor: [00:33:31] Yes and cause every one of them has just a little bit different flavor profile but we love it. All you know Americans just eat that. So, let’s see more salsa. Let’s eat more Pico de Gallo whether it’s fresh salsa, canned salsa. All of that is a tomato based product. And so the more of that kind of thing that we give our kids and let our kids to enjoy at school then the more they’re going to want to add that as a side to any of their other food. We went through a period where my husband bought giant things as just the two of them we buy these giant things of salsa and he would… it didn’t matter what I ate. He just you know would add a half a cup to a cup of salsa on top of it and it was like “really? Indian food?” I did not try. “But Debra I liked it.” And so what we want kids by the time they leave us to accept if they don’t like trying new things at least they accept that there are new things. So, when a parent looks at our menus you have to remember we’re like a big restaurant chain. We have toas long as we’re charging kids for meals which if you’re not doing CEP then you’re expecting parents to pay for that for their meals. Right? As long as we’re charging for meals and we have to make it where kids choose as over their other options. And so you have to prepare yet to plan menus and food that kids want to eat. And so when you just you know open up your school district’s website and use the app. Look they’re there when hamburgers again. They’re doing pizza again. Well, I mean…

Mathea Ford: [00:35:25] Check everything there.

Deborah Taylor: [00:35:26] Yes. Yes. Now that’s another yes. Kids love chicken now. And that is overtaken pizza as the number one choice now is various forms of chicken.

Mathea Ford: [00:35:38] Because of breading on Chicken Fingers is whole grain?

Deborah Taylor: [00:35:42] Breading on Chicken Fingers is whole grain rich. Absolutely! Would you believe it? Who would ever thought that you know? So. And all of the companies Tyson, Gold, Pilgrim’s Pride.

Mathea Ford: [00:35:58] Kaiser.

Deborah Taylor: [00:35:58] They cant hear it hear it is Pilgrim’s Pride. And all of them make chicken products that we buy those are all CN labeled because there again I have to prove that when a child takes five chicken nuggets that they’re getting two ounces of protein and since we now it also counters one grain because of the breading. So…

Mathea Ford: [00:36:29] And they’re baked and not fried?

Deborah Taylor: [00:36:29] And they’re baked not friend and they taste amazing. And so to one of these things says these big companies that make food for schools Conagra and Smucker’s . I probably shouldn’t have even started mentioning names because there are many many really really good companies that make them make food for us. Pierre – AdvancePierre which was in Enid, Oklahoma they made amazing beef products. Their hamburgers steak grilled hamburgers. I bought a rockin burger that have a teeny bit of onion in the mix and they taste amazing. They taste better than when you go to cook out for people or cooking it on the grill and putting it out there. The school hamburgers taste better than that. I mean it is amazing.

Mathea Ford: [00:37:29] I know when I was in the hospital, a lot of times I would ask my rep. Can you get me something off the school nutrition program stuff so that I can have lower sodium, I can have a whole and have a product that tastes good. I remember getting some cheese that way, I ended up getting but they just don’t naturally show that to health care which is very interesting and a totally different topic. But you know health care you would think that you’re working with people who have some sort of illness. Not aware of any type of you know chronic illness but maybe 50 percent of the people in the hospital have diabetes, heart disease something.

Deborah Taylor: [00:38:11] Yes, they are there for a reason.

Mathea Ford: [00:38:13] Yeah. A lower sodium foods. So, anyway… So, often I do the cereals they’re whole grain. Even like frosted flakes and fruit loops?

Deborah Taylor: [00:38:25] All of and they are lower in sugar. Now then that they had regulations for how what was the maximum amount of sugar that could be in a cereal that we served at school and now they’ve lowered it to this school year right now is the first year that that went into effect. The new regs. So, honestly since I retired at the end you know June 30th then I don’t, I haven’t seen the new ones because I haven’t been to a school. And I mean when you’re eating a good cereal you don’t know if it’s got six grams about of sugar. It’s got 12 grams of that is sugar. One thing I thought my boys when they were growing up is “Okay, look pull a box of cereal off” and back there you know we have the total carbohydrates and then sugars right?

Deborah Taylor: [00:39:26] And they had to get, they could pick any of them but they had to get it where the maximum was half sugar. Well, tons of our tins now are way lower than that. Dramatically lower. So and that tins that’s still one of the things we ask kids “what do you want? What would you like us to add to our menu that we don’t have right now?” Especially at high schools they say they want more variety of cereals and it’s like ” We have eight out there every day. How many varieties do you want?” So, it is. We always have to remember that this is kind of like a family you know at home. We’re feeding kids. What we buy and we tend to kind of make the same things over and over again in schools. Kids are eating in there for 13 years and you know if you and I met for lunch once a month then after eating at our favorite place for four months, we go “Ohh! We go to some place different.” Even though we went there once a month and these kids are going five days a week for 13 years. Right?

Mathea Ford: [00:40:39] But the truth is, kids tend to like certain foods and stick with those.

Deborah Taylor: [00:40:45] Yes.

Mathea Ford: [00:40:46] So, yeah I know because I know my son and daughter like you know we have these choices today, I always like the chicken. Whatever so. But I have two different. My family eat almost anything at school. And then my daughter have the time she makes her lunch because she’ just sure she’s not going to like the school ones. And I will not give her money to go buy from like schools’ students or whatever. Some like something out of the cafeteria or make your lunch.

Deborah Taylor: [00:41:15] They could. I would keep all the money that they want when they eat. They get a school meal, pay for that and then they could buy the things that I sold a la carte and if they wanted to eat out of the vending machines or go out we had open campus at Shawnee for my boys graduated and they wanted to leave with their friends and even off campus. Then, I didn’t want to set up a situation where they were lying to me. And so that’s fine but I’m not going to pay for that. You can work and have your own money and if you want to do that and that works out fine for my boys. Getting the freedom that other high school kids were getting and you know we never ever want to be. It doesn’t help raise people who eat more help make more healthy choices in the end which is what we’re all wanting to do food wise with our kids. We want them to be grown ups that keep on making healthy choices. If we force them to do anything with food that it backfires on us.

Mathea Ford: [00:42:21] If someone’s thinking about this is a career if they’re student or something or may be you know they are interested. What is your best tip for someone talk about this career as a career regarding what it involves or what’s your best thought about that?

Deborah Taylor: [00:42:36] Well first of all you do not have to be a Registered Dietitian/Nutritionist in order to do the job because the main thing is you have to follow the rules. So as dietitians, we understand the rules and we can tweak them and all that kind of thing. But it doesn’t matter if you understand it or not, you follow the rules and the rules are very well laid out in training from the State Department about Child Nutrition Program that’s provided for you all the way through. There’s an Institute of Family Nutrition that is based out of Mississippi. Anybody can Google those and there are all kinds of free online courses. One of the like a twelve hour course is say you want to be a director of a school nutrition program and then a major one also. Those would be things that you could go on and if you’re a student or if you’re in a career field right now or you’re taking a break from working because of children or whatever or if you’re getting tired of what you do or you know you have a move coming up and are going to have to switch that was what happened to me a lot. You know it’s the beginning of things. And so you can get a lot of individual training that was not available when I was when I started. As Registered Dietitians, we get a certain amount of food service management. That’s part of our training and it has to be there you don’t get to be an RD.

Mathea Ford: [00:44:16] Right.

Deborah Taylor: [00:44:16] Make no mistake about it this is a big food service management job. And if you won’t do that well and if you don’t care, I would say try it wouldn’t you? Try it because you may like it. It was certainly not my first choice of what I wanted to do for the rest of my life or whatever but it has it’s turned out to be something that has been extremely rewarding and I feel like I can look at my life and go “Wow! I made a difference in a lot of people’s lives.” And so it’s a food service management job that’s the first thing. And then every school district in the United States of America, they are using this Federal Child Nutrition Program. And I don’t mean a 100 percent that it’s like 99.2% or something of all the public schools choose to use the Federal Child Nutrition Program. So, every town has schools so these kind jobs are available in each town or each… Many states divides school districts up by the county which makes a lot of sense when it comes to very different than intense programs administrative kind of thing like the Child Nutrition Program. Then within one year if you choose a district that the size of Shawnee. Let’s say 10,000 or smaller students then it’s very likely you’ll be the only one there with the degree and then go train other people to do the things that they need to do. If you’re a little bit larger than that then they often act like with more they nearly always have a registered dietitian that’s planning their menus and registering the nutrition analysis. And that is that then has other responsibilities in the district also. That’s a great way to get started.

Deborah Taylor: [00:46:19] High schools have a very commonly a thousand to 4,000 students in them. Being the actual manager in that kitchen and running that kitchen for a year or two would be excellent experience. You’re not going to get paid as much. That would mean basically being a lunch lady that because there are no requirements at this stage that people managing the actual kitchens have anything more than a high school degree but you would learn so much and you would be a fantastic director if you also had that practical experience for a period of time. So, like in Oklahoma City schools we have Operations Coordinators that do have degrees and each of them has 12 to 20 schools that they are responsible for. So, that would be another place or you wouldn’t have to know all of them or you could get get to learn how school meals function and learn you know have the practical experience of managing people and training people and checking quality and checking safety and understanding the meal patterns that kind of thing. You know so that’s another area that you can get involved in. And one of the huge programs that’s out there that people don’t know about unless they’re in more of a poverty type situation a high poverty school, there is a Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Program that you apply for and these are like grants for each site. And with that Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Program is one of the only grants out there that actually provides money for real food.

Deborah Taylor: [00:48:21] We talked a lot about food as dietitians. We teach people about food but having real food there that people we expect people to go home and transfer that wonderful teaching that we do in several foods. But if you can deal with real food in the first place that’s one of the nice things we have in schools.

Mathea Ford: [00:48:48] I love it but those resources because if you’re just seem just thinking about it you can look into those resources or like you can spend a little time.

Deborah Taylor: [00:48:53] Yes.

Mathea Ford: [00:48:54] Question I like to ask my visitor in my interviews. What’s your favorite food?

Deborah Taylor: [00:49:04] Ah and I did expect that because I listened to some of your other things it’s like “Wow! What’s my favorite food.?” And my first instinct to say is Salted Caramel Chocolate Cheesecake Dark Chocolate Cheesecake. That obviously we can’t eat that all the time and so I do love food period. So I think if you were to ask me what was my favorite fruit? Right now, I think I would say mango.

Mathea Ford: [00:49:34] Ohh! I Love mango.

Deborah Taylor: [00:49:35] I know and I didn’t get to grow up with it.

Mathea Ford: [00:49:40] Awesome Deborah! Thank You so much for being on the podcast today. It was a pleasure to have you on a show. I know my listeners has just been immersed in child nutrition and school nutrition. And so, thank you for that. If the listeners want to connect with you, what’s the best way to do that?

Deborah Taylor: [00:49:55] Right now because I am just newly retired, I plan on setting up a blog at some point that my Facebook is Deborah. Spelled the long way D-E-B-O-R-A-H Stout S-T-O-U-T Taylor T-A-Y-L-O-R. And I do the nutrition stuff with my with my kids stuff that if you don’t want see kid pictures you know just be aware that’s my Facebook for everything.

Mathea Ford: [00:50:27] Okay. Well guys, this is again another great episode of the Nutrition Expert Podcast. The podcast that is all about learning more and do more with nutrition in your life.

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