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Nutrition Experts Podcast Episode 26 Listening To Your Body To Heal Yourself with Sharon Gelfand

October 29, 2018 by matheaford Leave a Comment

In the world of nutrition, few people have brought together the functional and common sense approach to food
and health as Sharon Holand Gelfand.

A member of the American College of Nutrition, Sharon Holand Gelfand is a Board Certified Nutrition
Consultant, a Functional Diagnostic Nutritionist, lifestyle designer, motivational speaker and author whose
mission is to empower women with the tools they need to live healthier, richer, fuller lives, from the inside out
and outside in. She’s passionate about helping them create a personal blueprint for success so that they can
enjoy more balance, energy and freedom every day—without the constraints of traditional dieting. Her tag line
is: Eat Well. Think Clearly. Live Fully.

Sharon Holand Gelfand holds a M.S. in Applied Clinical Nutrition from The New York Chiropractic College, and is
board certified from the American Naturopathic Medical Certification Board. She is also completing her
certification as a Functional Diagnostic Nutritionist (FDN), where through functional lab testing, she helps to
identify malfunctions and healing opportunities that are H.I.D.D.E.N. (hormone, immune, digestion,
detoxification, energy production and nervous system) and bring one back into balance.

Learn more about Sharon at http://sharonholand.com/. Connect with her on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharonholandgelfand. Follow her on FB:
https://www.facebook.com/sharonthenutritionist/, Twitter: https://twitter.com/sharonholand and Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/sharonholandgelfand/.

[00:00:00] You are listening to the Nutrition Experts Podcast. Featuring guests who take the scientific talk about food and break it down for practical use. You’ve heard the phrase “you are what you eat.” Come find out what that really means. Experience conversations with experts in the field of nutrition and understand the power of food for our health, wellbeing and beyond. Now here’s your host Registered Dietitian and Nutritionist Mathea Ford.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:27] Hi there! It’s Mathea. Welcome back to the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast featuring nutrition experts who are leading the way with food starts today right now, with our next guest. It’s great to have Sharon Holand on the show today. Sharon, welcome to Nutrition Experts. I’m excited to have you on the show and share your expertise with my tribe.

Sharon Holand: [00:00:48] Oh thank you so much for having me. I’ve been so looking forward to talking about our gut and I appreciate being on the show with you.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:57] I agree. I’m excited to talk about our gut because it’s it kind of just works for most of the time so we don’t even think about it. But I’d like you to tell my listeners a little more about you and what you do.

Sharon Holand: [00:01:10] Sure. So, I’m a Certified Functional Nutritionist and basically I look at the way our bodies function. I do a lot of specific testing with gut and hormones really to get to the root of what’s going on with the most common health complaints because we go through the day and retired and was stressed and we have IBS so we have aches and pains and we chalk it up to just getting older and then we think it’s normal. We think that “Oh! Well, this is just the way I should feel.” And it’s not it’s just what we’ve gotten used to. So, through my testing and questionnaires and working with my clients I can cut through all of that and help them find their own balance and function so that they can feel better and ground themselves with food so that they can pursue what their passions are, what their purposes and live a better, healthier life.

Mathea Ford: [00:02:05] And who doesn’t want to live a better healthier life right?

Sharon Holand: [00:02:08] Absolutely!

Mathea Ford: [00:02:10] So, let’s start with your gut. What are some signs that things are not right with your diet or your physiology that your gut could tell you?

Sharon Holand: [00:02:19] Besides the typical gas or constipation you know just that’s loaded feeling or acid reflux, it can be the fact that we have aches and pains that our joints are hurting us or that we get headaches or that we have dry skin. These things that again we think are benign are symptoms and are signs that our gut is saying “you know wake up! Wake up you know I’m trying to throw a little pebble at you to pay attention.” The challenge is that because these are common symptoms it’s so hard for it to be diagnosed as something because some people think “oh it’s chronic fatigue or it’s fibromyalgia and it’s it’s a gray area. But those are really some of the major things that you start thinking “I’ve got to look at my gut. What is going on in my gut? Where over 70 percent of our immune system lies.” So those are some of the common ones.

Mathea Ford: [00:03:18] So, those are symptoms. For example, what kind of conditions would you say that you deal with a lot.?

Sharon Holand: [00:03:26] A lot of people who come to me and you know it’s like I’m starting to work with people in their 20s even is that they’re just tired. People come to me are tired. They’ve gone to the doctor and they’re not getting… Nothing showing up so they’re just overwhelmed they’re sick and tired of feeling sick and tired and there’s no diagnosis. So, a lot of times I really I would say half my clients come to me with no particular diagnosis except that they feel instinctively “there’s something’s going on and I don’t know what it is and I can’t get the answers.” Then on the other end are people who are being diagnosed with auto immune disease. You know like Hashimoto’s or Crohn’s which is what my son has or even just Type 2 Diabetes where they don’t understand “I’m eating so healthy. I’m exercising. What’s going on? Why am I being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes or an autoimmune disease when I’m doing everything right? I’m reading everything and listening to everything” and they got their hands up and they’re just fed up. So, it kind of goes both ways of a diagnosis or just feeling sick and tired and sick being sick and tired.

Mathea Ford: [00:04:42] I can empathize with that having been a mom of young children. Absolutely! How does your work with the gut help that? Lets take being tired for example or lack of energy. How did they work to improve that by using their gut?

Sharon Holand: [00:04:59] When I start with somebody it starts with the whole intake of everything. I’m very thorough and looking at all aspects of life because it’s not just about the food. You know you and I were talking beforehand about the stresses in our lives and how there are so many factors and we have to really understand to connect all the pieces. So, I start with that because I don’t immediately go into testing because I want to get a sense of where somebody is and it’s simple things of just tell me “what your day is like. Tell me what you’re you know what do you do for a living? What’s your family situation and honing in on how or how are you sleeping? Are you drinking enough water? What are some things that we can look at?” Because sometimes somebody does eat healthy but they’re healthy is still eating wholegrain bread where they might have a sensitivity. So, I’ll say “you know maybe you want to swap that out and it just have really more root vegetables or have some sort meat. You know something with Almond flour in it.” I’m looking for simple steps before I get into the testing. And as you and I were also talking beforehand it’s about “what are you being thankful for?” You know it’s looking at “Okay, foods that you’re eating are you chewing your food? Because we’re such gulpers, we’re in a rush all the time right? And if you’re gulping your body’s stress it’s not able to digest properly. And just by slowing that process down allows your body to assimilate the nutrients and by slowing down you actually start losing weight because your brain and your stomachs are communicating and full so you eat less. So, it’s simple things like that and then what are we thankful for? It’s so easy in our negative society to be annoyed and stressed and everything. You know you turn on the news and something bad all the time or something at work or something with your kid. So it’s about pausing, breathing and enjoying your day. What can you be thankful for? Wake up in the morning. Be thankful that you’re alive! Be thankful that you have a roof over your head, that you have a spouse who loves you whatever it is. Look at that appreciation and at the end of the day no matter how bad your day is “What are three good things that happened?” And we can always find three good things. Always! And especially if you have kids or dogs you know just the love that you get from them. So, that’s another way of helping people to tune in to ways to calm their gut because they are calming their bodies because even if you’re eating well but you’re stressed out your system is going to be all haywire because it’s again not just about the food it’s about all aspects of your life and slowing down and breathing.

Mathea Ford: [00:07:56] How is your gut responding to stress? What’s the connection there? Because you know you’re talking about you’re tired and you’re stressed and that’s reacted your gut but I’m not sure I understand what the connection is.

Sharon Holand: [00:08:13] Over 82 percent of 70 percent of our immune system lies in our gut and our gut consider our second brain because it’s connected to our brain by the Vagus nerve and it’s like the superconductor highway. So, what you’re feeding your body, what you’re feeding your gut sends nutrients out to your organs through your bloodstream and up to your brain. But with that and with the being tired or the stress, there’s also these like free radicals I can think like a Pacman game you know you have Pacman who is eating up all these you know yellow blobs to try to win and those little yellow blobs are just free radicals that are being created in our bodies. There’s actually a gentleman that I listened to at a conference I went to recently Tom O’Bryan he wrote a book called The Autoimmune Fix and I love his metaphor because our gut microbiomes has like trillions of bacteria – good bad and ugly – and it’s considered by you can compare to the Armed Forces. So you have the Armed Forces that has all these different you know the Marines, the Navy, the Army and all these factions and then you can compare that to different antibodies that are in our gut. So, there’s like IgE response, IgG response. And their job is to protect our bodies. So, when it sees something coming in it automatically shoots a bullet at it but when it does that there’s collateral damage and that collateral damage creates a disruption in the gut bacteria. So, if our microbiome is disrupted and we’re eating foods and we’re not able to assimilate them properly or our body doesn’t recognize it and starts attacking it, it then affects our brain because it’s not sending the proper transmitters to our brain to give it the energy it needs so that you’re not tired and that you have the energy to do what you need to do.

Mathea Ford: [00:10:19] So, I heard Dr. Robert Martindale talk about the gut microbiome and basically how it can change over days and time, how it does help you to absorb nutrients, how it actually performed some of the digestive function. Obviously, producing… most dietitians know you get a lot of your Vitamin K from the gut microbiome. So, what you’re doing is kind of helping people to improve their gut microbiomes so therefore their whole body and immune system improves or how do you…. Am I confused?

Sharon Holand: [00:10:56] So, I start, yes, so I start with these simple ways that they can start taking care of themselves. Right? So, it’s chewing, it’s slowing down, it’s adding in you know some healthy foods, we talk about what it is they’re eating and then people generally will go opt for a gut test and that’s where I really can go in and see. It’s a stool test that sent directly from the lab to my client and that’s where they do a stool test, they sent it and I get the results I actually had somebody ask “Well, do you actually look at the poop?” I’m like “No! I don’t look at it but I get the result and it’ll show me simple things like do you have H. pylori, do you have pet parasites or you have candida but then it also shows me where there’s opportunistic bacteria dysbiosis. Actually, you know a good way to look at it is your boiling water for pasta. You put the pasta end and if it’s at the right temperature then it just will boil properly. But if it’s too high a foam is created right? And then it overflows. Right? Yeah. I know that’s ever happened to you but then all of a sudden. Right?. It’s everywhere! So, what I’m doing is I’m looking at those test results and seeing, correlating your symptoms and seeing what’s going on with the different bacteria. Seeing if there’s any auto immune triggers, any leaky gut. There are markers for that to show any inflammation because generally with what I see is that overflowing of that pasta pot we don’t necessarily know is happening except for those some of the symptoms that I mentioned. There are dozens of symptoms but those are the major ones. So, by looking at these results then I can really target the gut and start by supporting it with supplements that will help to calm the inflammation down so that you can start healing. But then also go in and get rid of these opportunistic bacteria or parasites or whatever the person’s individual results show. And once that happens that foam disappears the clearing. It’s like the fog is gone. And now you can see where you’re going because when you have that fog there it’s hard then to be able to really pay attention to really think clearly because you’re gut you know that the army is you know they’re on a field day. They’re just like “oh yeah! Let’s go you know let’s go hit this area. Let’s go back to you know my brain. Let’s go challenge this organ.” And by coming it all down and getting rid of that fog then the vagus nerve then the gut and the brain construct communicating better and so many times people don’t even realize that they have anxiety that will then practically disappear because they’ve healed their gut or I even had a client who for 20 years had the sniffles. She just didn’t even realize that that was a problem until it was gone. And then she she was like “oh my god! Wow. I didn’t think I’d ever have normal you know that I would never have to blow my nose again.”

Mathea Ford: [00:14:09] She thought she just had constant allergies. Huh?

Sharon Holand: [00:14:11] Yes! Exactly! So, did that answer your question of how I actually go in and then work with and I’m able to calm the guard down?

Mathea Ford: [00:14:21] Yeah! I Was actually going to ask you about what is the testing that you do so you kind of explain that.

Sharon Holand: [00:14:26] Because that’s where so much of everything happens and the thing is it just didn’t happen over night. You know you and I spoke about this before as well. Over time, the stress the products we put on our skin, the air we breathe, the products we clean with, the food, antibiotics that we may have taken when we were kids. There are so many factors that builds up in our body that over time, our immune system just gets tired. This throws up the white flag and it’s like there’s too much collateral damage here. I can’t keep fighting and that after years of all of this work of our body trying to adapt and adapt. That’s when the the white flag goes up and it’s like your body is like “I give up.” And that’s when we start feeling the symptoms. And that’s when we’re like “oh my God! I don’t understand but I’ve been taking care of myself. What happened?” Because it didn’t happen overnight. It took years sometimes for things to happen. My goal is always giving people hope of like “you know it’s great. Now we know now we can do something about it.” And the more armed we are with the knowledge you know just like I always say to people like “Imagine the possibilities because now you have so many choices. Because it’s not about living in a cave it’s about what can I do to improve my life on a regular basis even if it’s small steps whatever I can do to make me feel better. It’s such a yes to the first have.”

Mathea Ford: [00:15:56] Yes we don’t value our health nearly enough until we have problems with it. Absolutely. What are some ways we can work just as individuals to improve the balance between our diet and our health?

Sharon Holand: [00:16:10] You know don’t try to do everything at once. I think part of the reason why diets fail is that we want to be perfect at doing it. We try to follow something to a tee. And as you and I know there’s like what 60,000 types out there. We’re trying to do it all. We follow a system that works for one person and it works for a few weeks and then you know it stops working because we’re not we’re trying to do too much and we’re not listening to our bodies. That’s the first thing that I say to somebody is you know you do have to keep some sort of a journal. Listen to your body and start with one thing. So, somebody for instance who really eats healthy then all right, look at what products are you putting on your skin. Maybe there’s a way to use healthier products. You know go to your health food store or use something that doesn’t have as many ingredients or a company you trust. Another way is products that you’re cleaning with. You know it’s like sat with somebody who might say “yeah let me start with products and to eat healthy.” For somebody who doesn’t know they’re eating healthy. My big thing is look at your plate at each meal. Your plate should be colored with, filled with lots of colors. Alright, breakfast maybe not so because many people like “I’m not eating a salad for breakfast!” But look at your plate at lunch and dinner. Fill it up with as many colors of the rainbow. You know dark green leafy vegetables and peppers or tomatoes or zucchini or broccoli, cauliflower whatever it is. And of course I say that generally because people can have sensitivities to vegetables but I’m just talking in general and then half your plate should be that way. Then we’ll get the other half and your plate and divide it into a good healthy protein which a good serving is shifted about the palm of your hand or look like that you know like a deck of cards. You don’t need a lot of protein and then a really good healthy fat. And that could be a half an avocado, it could be nuts and seeds, could be olive oil, could be coconut oil, it could be grass fed butter. You know it’s whatever healthy fat that you like and that could be in a dressing that you’re drizzling over your salad and then a slow burning carb which could be a root vegetable. This whole idea of grains and breads is it best to minimize that as much as possible?

Sharon Holand: [00:18:36] Absolutely! Because we have so many sensitivities to it. But I say to people if you love your bread and you don’t want to change that. Start by adding in the vegetable, start by looking at the rest of your plate. Start at one place and focus on that per week and then once you have that under your belt add something else and it’s just about the baby steps. And again this is a generalization because obviously if somebody has something specific or if they’re celiac or whatever it is then you really have to be a little more extreme. But I’m just talking in general. Right? You wanna just start somewhere.

Mathea Ford: [00:19:16] You mentioned autoimmune a couple times. Are there ways that we can mitigate or change autoimmune reactions and how do we recognize what those are?

Sharon Holand: [00:19:27] Auto immune disease. It’s actually interesting how the food supply chain has changed right in the last 50 years and how prevalent autoimmune disease is becoming. There are over 80 autoimmune diseases and there are about 50 million people or about that you know that have immune disease. So, with and they’re diagnosed because some of the same symptoms that I’m talking about can be some of those triggers that start that auto immune process. And it’s really the you know the achy joints in pain the joints that you’re feeling and the foggy brain. So, being aware that those could possibly and I say possibly because everybody’s different I don’t want people to listen to this thinking “oh my God it happen we’re having autoimmune disease!” You know because the last thing you know. But again it’s that awareness of “oh wow! So, I’m feeling this let me pay attention what am I doing?” And it’s looking at like I said you know the food products were using the air. Well we can’t control the air you’re breathing but what kind of water are my drinking? Can I use a filtered water? And the top…. And you know I know this also right that the top things are the lactose and the wheat because of the way the wheat is being processed there are now so many markers for different responses that people can react to because of the whole manufacturing process and the glycyphagus that’s used in some of these you know being sprayed in the field these pesticides. So, really again going to the root of eating whole foods and asking yourself if I can’t read what these ingredients are what is it doing to my body? And if I really love having breads and by the way when somebody has a craving for bread that’s usually what they’re sensitive to and that’s kind of a catch 22 because it’s like a “ohh! Really?” You know because your body’s craving it so you’ve got right these little guys in your gut are saying “ha ha ha. We’re going to trick you. We’re going to tell you that you really want it but it’s going to feed us. We’re feeding off of it.” So I say to people “well, then try to upgrade if you’re eating regular whole grain bread. Switch to a sprouted grain, switch to an Ezekiel, switch to something that’s a higher level and see how you feel and then slowly swap it out. So, if you’re eating pasta maybe do a chickpea pasta or a black bean pasta you know and again some people may have sensitivities to legumes. But it’s starting it’s starting where you’re at and picking a place and swapping out. And dairy nobody really needs dairy.

Sharon Holand: [00:22:25] You know we think that we need calcium. We’ve been conditioned by these ads. And that’s another thing we’re eating advertisement. We’ve been conditioned by these ads to think “I have to get my calcium. I’ve got to get from dairy” but dairy is acidic and the more we are eating the dairy it’s acidic our bodies and our bodies trying to neutralize it. And what’s it doing it’s actually leaching calcium from our bones. They were being diagnosed with osteoporosis. We can’t understand why. So, you get more calcium from broccoli and dark leafy vegetables. Increase your vegetable intake and if you don’t like the taste of it throw it into a smoothie. Make yourself a protein shake and put your vegetables in there. So, those are some of the ways.

Mathea Ford: [00:23:13] If people don’t you know they want to test this or think about how to change a few things just to see if it helps, what sort of ways would you say that the listeners could use this in their day to day life that they could change?

Sharon Holand: [00:23:28] Writing down everything that they… It takes time to just sit and breathe and be with yourself and writing down what you feel in your body. So I have clients who think that it’s normal to just have a bowel movement once a week because that’s all they know. And I’ve had clients who have diarrhea every day and they think it’s normal because that’s all they know. It’s writing down all these little mundane things for yourself and then asking yourself “Is this normal?” And If it’s like “why do I believe this?” It’s time to question your body and its reaction “I’m burping all the time” you know some societies and some countries think that that’s a sign of a good meal but is that really normal. And once you’re asking yourself that then you can say “Okay, now let me see what am I eating and my reacting this way an hour after I eat.” So it’s paying attention. An hour after you eat to “am I belching? And farting? Do I gas? Do I have diarrhea? Constipation? Am I sneezing and sniffles? Do I have a scratchy throat? Do I have dry skin? Do I feel itchy?” And just writing it down and notice a pattern. So, writing it down. Look at it an hour later, look at it two hours later. If it’s the evening when you wake up in the morning see how you feel. You and I talked about before we found this call how I ate ice cream and I knew I was going to wake up feeling groggy because I’m aware now but when I wasn’t aware I didn’t understand why I was so tired in the morning until I put the pieces together of “wow! You know what? When I eat ice cream at night I wake up tired when I don’t, I’m fine.” So, once you do that then you can start saying “Okay! I’m not sure what food it is I ate, how to isolate it? And you pick one food at a time to remove, to isolate and you play around with it every few days like you would with a new baby when you introduce baby food to them. You want to see how they respond to a food so you isolate it and then if somebody feels like this is just too much work. “I don’t think I can do this myself.” Then I say “Okay, then let’s do the testing. Let’s talk. Let’s work together. And once you learn after working with me and seeing your results then you’ll have the tools to do it yourself and you’ll feel so much more empowered to know what it is and how you can then not only help yourself that help family.

Mathea Ford: [00:26:09] Okay, so a little bit different topic. I try to ask this to all my guest. So, what is your favorite food?

Sharon Holand: [00:26:20] Oh my God!

Mathea Ford: [00:26:23] Everybody says that it is the hardest question.

Sharon Holand: [00:26:24] It is because I have a couple of favorite foods that we have… I have to cook a couple of times. Honestly, I really love a great slice of thin crust pizza with some goat cheese, pine nuts and spinach. That’s like my favorite. And that’s thing is that I will indulge once in a while because my body can heal itself in those moments if I’m taking care of myself. My other favorite food is ice cream. I have some sugar but not the fake kind like the real ice cream. I’m going to have it, I’m going to have it. And again I’m just very mindful of not having too much of that because I know it creates inflammation of my body. But those are definitely my top two. And you would think that it would be something healthy. But it’s not.

Mathea Ford: [00:27:18] I go by the philosophy that all foods can fit. So, like you said you know a little bit here a little bit there.

Sharon Holand: [00:27:24] Exactly! And that’s also why when I work with my clients they see that I’m real. You know it’s like I make mistakes they all make mistakes. It’s life. It’s not even a mistake it’s just part of a process. And we have to be who we are and we have to know that it’s a lifestyle. It’s a journey. It’s never ending right?

Mathea Ford: [00:27:46] Sometimes doing those little things like eating a little ice cream and recognizing again “oh yeah! That makes me feel a certain way just reinforces that. Okay. Yes. I need to remember to continue to treat myself right by eating the right foods. Though it only serves as a good reminder. But yeah.

Sharon Holand: [00:28:07] Exactly! I do have to say Guac is definitely up there also and I eat an avocado every single day. So, something healthy for the listeners.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:19] I love guacamole too. The only I think I’m the only one in my family that does those so whenever we go out to a Mexican restaurant and guacamole comes with the fajitas or whatever their eyes like “here, you can have them!” Like “Yey!” Because we don’t have a lot of avocados in Oklahoma.

Sharon Holand: [00:28:37] That’s a funny. Yeah! More for you right? The more the merrier.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:40] Well Sharon, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. It was a pleasure to have you on the show. I know my listeners learned a lot about how food affects our health. And so listeners want to connect with you what’s the best way to do that?

Sharon Holand: [00:28:54] Definitely go to my website sharonholand.com. Sign up for my newsletter and you’ll get a free guide. Break Free from Cravings, Diets and Deprivation. And I have a Saturday YouTube video that I’ve put up every Saturday morning – Saturday Mornings with Sharon where I give quick tips the best way. And then from there I offer complimentary consultations which you can find everything on my website.

Mathea Ford: [00:29:20] That sounds great! Okay. Well guys, this has been another great episode of the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast is all about learning more you can do more with nutrition in your life.

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Nutrition Experts Podcast Episode 25 Everyone Starts Somewhere So Stop Stressing About It with Julie Harrington

October 22, 2018 by matheaford Leave a Comment

Julie is the Registered Dietitian and Culinary Nutrition Chef behind her website www.julieharringtonrd.com based in New Jersey.

Cooking has always given Julie joy because of its powerful ability to connect people together. She was always intrigued by the way food can impact your health and decided to follow my passion to dive deeper in learning through culinary school and becoming a registered dietitian.

Prior to starting my business, Julie worked as a supermarket RD, providing nutrition education right in the grocery store. Now with her own business, she works with individuals one-on-one to help nourish their lives through nutrition & cooking education. Julie also partners with like-minded food brands and organizations through recipe development, food photography, nutrition communications, and media work.

Julie’s passion is to educate others about nutrition through food and giving them the tools they need to build confidence in the kitchen. It’s her mission to help everyone appreciate all the delicious ways foods can be prepared so everyone can fall in love with it again and again.

Along with being a cookbook author, most recently, her recipes have been featured in SHAPE, Huffington Post, US News & World Report, and Healthy Aperture.

Along with running her own business, Julie is the Culinary Nutrition Manager of Living Plate, where she teaches cooking classes and involves culinary instruction with nutrition education for community events and corporate wellness programs.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:27] Hi there! It’s Mathea! Welcome back to the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast featuring nutrition experts who are leading the way using food starts today right now with our next guest. It’s great to have Julie Harrington on the show today. Julie welcome to Nutrition Experts. I’m excited to have you on the show today and share your expertise with my tribe.

Julie Harrington: [00:00:50] Thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to be chatting with everyone.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:53] Great! Julie, I love what you’re doing you’re a chef and a dietitian. And of course being a foodie that I am I think that’s the best combination but can you tell my listeners a little more about you and what you do?

Julie Harrington: [00:01:06] Yep! So I am like you just said I’m a chef and a dietitian and that’s a little unique in the nutrition world. I went to Johnson Wales University and my degree is in Culinary Nutrition and then I went on to do my Dietetic internship. What I really have a passion about is educating about nutrition through food. So, what is it taste like? What is it look like? How can we make this to fit in with my nutrition? That’s really where my passion is what I do is I am a Culinary Nutrition Consultant. I have my own website and business JulieHarringtonRD.com where I write recipes, provide cooking tips and nutrition education. I do a lot of recipe development for myself and other brands and use a little bit of freelance writing and media work. My main thing that I really love to do is teach cooking classes. They’re very hands on and it really gets everyone involved and then I do some presentations in the community and some corporate role as well. So, a little bit of everything. So, when everyone asked me like “what do you do?” Ahmmm “A lot!”.

Mathea Ford: [00:02:15] Yeah! Where should I start?

Julie Harrington: [00:02:17] Yeah!

Mathea Ford: [00:02:17] Awesome! So, Let’s start with talking about being in the kitchen because I know that people tend to sometimes avoid cooking because either they didn’t do it when they were a kid; they didn’t see their parents doing it and that type of thing so they just lack confidence in their skills. What are some things that people are typically concerned about in the kitchen and how can they improve their confidence with those?

Julie Harrington: [00:02:45] So, a lot of the times this is what I really break down that barrier in the cooking classes as building that kitchen confidence back up. Because everyone starts somewhere. So, you have to just be confident of where your starting point is. What do you want to accomplish? Kitchen confidence can mean a lot of different things for many people. What happens is I ask some like “What do you want to start with? Do you cook at all at home? Do you own any kitchen equipment?” There’s some people who don’t even own a chef knives in their kitchen. That’s one barrier that we need to break. How you are going to start cooking if you don’t have the cutting board and a knife to start chopping. So, really just starting small and start where you’re at. I have some people who are really involved in the kitchen and they’re just looking for new ideas and new meal prep methods or recipes to work on. But if you’re starting with someone who doesn’t go grocery shopping on a weekly basis, relies on take out where can we start small to slowly incorporate these new kitchen habits and this kitchen confidence that you could actually make these the home.

Mathea Ford: [00:03:50] So, it’s really helping people to understand that there is a system, a process. Do you work with them on understanding recipes or how they work?

Julie Harrington: [00:04:00] Yep. So, I always say “Your recipe is a guide. You can put your own twist on it.” I have some people come to my classes that follow the recipe to a T to exact measurements at all times but I have some people who want to adjust their recipe based on their preference and it’s all about how you want to cook; how do you enjoy the experience. “Are you not confident enough to make those changes?” And that’s fine. I have some like friends says “My sister is super type A.” So, when she looks at her recipes she needs to follow it exactly whereas I’m a little bit more free spirited and I’m like “Ohh! A little pinch of that! Or maybe too into cooking time a little bit. I would like to add a new ingredient in there.” So it really depends on what your style is too.

Mathea Ford: [00:04:40] Me it’s usually like I look in the drawer and in this cabinet and I don’t have that spice so I’m like “what spice cannot be used that will fix it it will be the same…

Julie Harrington: [00:04:52] Exactly! And then sometimes it’s like the end of the week and you have random ingredients and you feel like you’re on an episode of Chopped. What can you do when you can’t get your ingredients.

Mathea Ford: [00:05:02] Yeah! Yeah! Chopped! Oh yeah! Thinking about that. Thinking about like knives, cutting boards, equipment to have in the kitchen, what are some basic things that people need to have or should have in their kitchen to be able to make most recipes? Equipment?

Julie Harrington: [00:05:20] You just need the essentials. So, a cutting board. Really the two knives that I do recommend everyone having is a utility or chef’s knife and a paring knife. We don’t need all those different like boning knives or Soulé knives. If you really.. You don’t need those fancy things you could accomplish that same task with a chef knife and a paring knife. I would say cutting boards are going to be doing some chopping. A couple different sizes of pots and pans. Keeping it super basic. You don’t a fancy pizza cutter. Just one woman was like “well, I don’t have a pizza cutter” and I’m like “a knife can cut that.”.

Mathea Ford: [00:05:59] Yeah! Yeah! They cut it before they invented the pizza cutters.

Julie Harrington: [00:06:02] Exactly!

Mathea Ford: [00:06:03] Yeah! So, that’s good to know that you can get started with just simple equipment. So, with meal prep if you’re thinking about getting your meals ready for the week or that type of process if you’re thinking ahead instead of like opening the door to the fridge and going “oh! I got chicken and broccoli. Okay. Get rid of jiggling broccoli. How do you make it easier. So I do offer meal plans as part of my services so if you really want to take the guesswork out of everything i pre populate a full meal plan for meal and degenerates into our grocery list you’re also able to customize. You can choose us. It is now based off of preferences or how many times you know you’ll be cooking. So, that’s always an option. But then when people tell me they never a meal plan or prep I’m like “Do you ever go grocery shopping? You are a meal planner.” Because you have to think about something that you want to buy to put in your kitchen. So, maybe you’re not thinking of the next step of “What am I going to make with that?” And that’s okay. But starting that wheel of thinking of “these food are going to be my kitchen. I bought a chicken. I want to make something with chicken.” You’re starting to me in a little bit. So, now what are the steps? The simple steps that you could maybe take to get it prepared a little bit more easily for the week? So, I work with a lot of clients and community presentations explaining that. That you don’t have to spend your whole Sunday making this grocery list and Googling and Pinteresting all these different recipes. Just finding ways to make it easier for yourself and having yourself ready to go for the week.

Mathea Ford: [00:07:38] Yeah I always have. As you said, we always think about trying to make just make sure that I have the basics in the kitchen and that they’re ready where I can use them instead of always planning meals because things always come up or I just…

Julie Harrington: [00:07:56] Or you get really good ingredients at the grocery store too. Like you fill up that were off your whole meal for that night.

Mathea Ford: [00:08:03] Right. You can’t call for pizza just because you don’t have onion.

Julie Harrington: [00:08:06] Exactly. Exactly.

Mathea Ford: [00:08:09] So, what does chefs know that other people don’t know about meal prep?

Julie Harrington: [00:08:13] You can cheat! You don’t have to buy everything fresh and like so for example sometimes I buy pre-cooked grains like the frozen Quinoa. If I don’t know like I’m no I’m going to be limited on time, I might buy it or I might prep the whole bag of Quinoa in advance so we have Quinoa for the week but they make frozen Quinoa and frozen brown rice and all these different frozen grains now. So, that really takes out the work there. Another little cheat method I do by the pre-portioned salmon fillets sometimes or the pre-portioned pieces of chicken. So, I only have to take out what I need. Little things like that you’d have to cook from scratch all the time. A lot of my meal prep tips come from just getting things started. It’s not necessarily cooking all your meals for the week. I actually don’t recommend that. You see these like pretty pictures on Instagram or Pinterest of these people. Pre-packaging and pre-portioning all their meals. It looks fantastic. Great but after eating the same thing over and over again each week you’re going to get bored of that food and what if you’re not in the mood for that food anymore? The ways that I like to say is like start the prep process because think about the brocolli that you buy you buy ahead a brocolli and now comes to be Wednesday evening that had a brocolli staring me in the face still wrapped themselves say with a rubber band around it and you get home from a long day. What’s going to happen on that broccoli? Probably, its going to stay there. So, the day you buy it, I trim it into the florettes, I wash it and then it’s ready to go in a produce bag. These little mesh produce bags I really love because they’re breathable and they’re not going to trap a lot of moisture in there and turn your produce quickly after you washed and prep them. So now, that brocolli Wednesday it’s trimmed in florettes. So now, that can be turned into a stir fry. You can easily steam it. You can just throw out in the planter roast. And he just took out all that prep time during the middle of the week.

Mathea Ford: [00:10:10] Yeah! It’s just that you’re not even knowing what you’re going to use that broccoli for but you know you need it in this condition in order to do the next thing.

Julie Harrington: [00:10:19] I did with a lot of lettuce, any of like the produce. Because that does take some time. We do have to trim things or maybe even throw a marinade in a mason jar that it will eventually go into something maybe chicken or tofu or some salmon but that’s just kind of a general Asian style marinade that I just threw in a mason jar. Oh go on something.

Mathea Ford: [00:10:40] Yeah! Or like I’ve cut up onions ahead of time. Dice them up, keep them in the freezer. And then when I’m already use them they fall fairly quickly. Same thing like green peppers. So …

Julie Harrington: [00:10:52] Oh It totally belies your freezer. So,again last week about raspberries at the Farmers Market and I didn’t go through them fast enough. Don’t waste them just freeze them and then come back to them later.

Mathea Ford: [00:11:05] Yeah they can. They’re so small they thaw easy or you could put them in a smoothie or something. So, that all can build up your confidence if you know you have instead of going “I’m not ready.” You can be like “Okay, I’ve got the ingredients here. Let’s look at them and make something. And the key is having your environment set up for that. If you don’t go food shopping for not putting these foods into your kitchen then how do you expect to do anything?. You’re going to open an empty fridge!

Mathea Ford: [00:11:35] Thinking about different ingredients that people use like we’re talking about raspberries and broccoli and that stuff what’s an ingredient you use a lot that other people would be surprised by?

Julie Harrington: [00:11:48] Two ways to answer this question. What I would like more of the culinary ingredient that I like to use a lot is chick pea miso. So miso is usually a fermented soy bean but this is fermented chickpea and they use it a lot to thicken sauces instead of making your Roux. And it also adds a really nice savory kinda taste to your dishes. That as come in, I use it in soup recipes though too instead of using broth sometimes because they’d always have it on hand and it’s fermented product. So, it has those benefits of probiotics. Unfortunately, when you heat it those probiotics get killed off. But I do use also in dressings to thicken up like a vinaigrette. So, that is not heated so that actually keeps those probiotic benefits. So, that’s normally got a unique culinary ingredient but a lot of times people are surprised that I do use boxed pancake mix. I’m not going to lie. I honestly love this whole grain Kodiak cakes. Have you ever tried that?

Mathea Ford: [00:12:50] No I have not.

Julie Harrington: [00:12:51] They’re really good and they’re just so convenient sometimes when I just want to make a quick like pancake or waffle or mash on a banana or something with it but it really just saves a lot of time.

Mathea Ford: [00:13:02] Yeah we use… Well, I’m in Oklahoma but we use Nesquik or Pioneer brands but to make pancake mix you don’t have to I guess you don’t have to have self rising flour because you can use baking soda, baking powder type stuff.

Julie Harrington: [00:13:17] On a weekday I’m not really in the mood to do that from scratch.

Mathea Ford: [00:13:21] Yeah.

Julie Harrington: [00:13:21] I’m not ashamed about it. Like I use these cheat methods all the time. People are like “You don’t cook from scratch all the time?” I’m like “I’m human. I have a busy life like I’m still eating great foods, nutritious foods it’s just I’m taking all these shortcuts.”.

Mathea Ford: [00:13:33] That’s an excellent methods to give people that it doesn’t matter if you use a few little things that help you if it’s going to mean that you’re going to at the end of the day eat more nutritious meal because you made it at home and you control the ingredients and you tailored it to what you wanted it.

Julie Harrington: [00:13:51] People feel a lot of guilt around food and we need to break that barrier if you’re fueling your body. I have one client recently like ashamed that she was using frozen vegetables and I’m like “Why? Frozen vegetables are fine! They are flash frozen. They’re actually locking in the nutrition” like I always want to focus on the food positives. There’s always a positive that comes as fueling your body and of course a vegetable it’s nutritious or why you feel guilty about that?

Mathea Ford: [00:14:17] Yeah! And you can have an all year long in they’re lower sodium.

Julie Harrington: [00:14:22] Exactly! Keep them stocked in your freezer to have them at any time.

Mathea Ford: [00:14:26] Yeah but I couldn’t understand how culturally maybe if she grew up that different. Any ideas for thinking about ingredients like shopping at Farmers’ Markets? You got any tips for people if they want to go to a Farmers’ Market how they might find good food?

Julie Harrington: [00:14:42] Pretty much anything you find in a farmer’s market is really great because it’s all going to be seasonal. Eating in season is really great to add variety to your diet when it changes each season. So, that’s always awesome and usually very affordable because it’s in season it’s readily available. It’s really coming from a short distance of travelling. I usually stock up a lot and then figure out ways to either freeze it or make it last a lot longer. So back to the berries, berries are so much more affordable this time of year, fresh berries. So, I usually buy like a big bulk fan of them and I’ll freeze them. Strategy now is to freeze them that I always tell everyone to do as you wash them and you dry them; find a sheet tray but put a line of parchment paper down first and then freeze them all in one layer. So, once they’re fully frozen then put them into little baggies or containers to put in your freezer. This prevents them from all clumping together and then you just have one big mass of berries or something all stuck.

Mathea Ford: [00:15:49] Oh that’s great! So then you can just take out a smaller amount instead of having the whole chunk. So, as long as you do it pretty quick you freeze them and then you take them out put them in the bag. They’re not getting the freezer burn or…

Julie Harrington: [00:16:01] Correct!

Mathea Ford: [00:16:02] Any sort of damage?

Julie Harrington: [00:16:02] Uhuh!

Mathea Ford: [00:16:02] Ohh! That’s a great tip! I love it! You have to spend that time right after you get home from the farmer’s market, get them cleaned up and freeze them and you’re ready to go for later.

Mathea Ford: [00:16:14] I have even done that with vegetables as well. People only think about that for fruit. I had a lot of zucchini leftover last week too that was starting to turn so, I chopped it up, I steamed it and I let it cool and then I did that same freezing process. And so the steamed zucchini I added it into a soup, I already threw it into a smoothie. I know if that is common with zucchini in the smoothie but its actually delicious. But you can turn your vegetables in to new ways as well.

Mathea Ford: [00:16:43] Great! Those are great tips! I think also going to a farmer’s market you get to talk to the people who grew the food or who are close to growing the food. And you can even learn more about different food in your area that you might be interested in. So, you may see something that you don’t see normally in the grocery store. You see it, you’re willing to try it and you’ve gotten a little more variety in your diet.

Julie Harrington: [00:17:07] Oh I totally agree! And it’s so nice to talk to them because they’re so passionate about what they do. And you just see that excitement and they are so proud of what they produced and what they’re providing that’s now going to be on your kitchen table.

Mathea Ford: [00:17:21] So knowing that you do a lot of meal planning, what are some meal planning strategies that you can share with the audience?

Julie Harrington: [00:17:29] So, again back to the you don’t to have every single meal figured out, just kind of have to think of different categories so I usually think about three dinners that incorporate a certain ingredient and how I can utilize the other ingredients to make other meals. So, for instance like that pack of Quinoa, I’ll make Quinoa purposely want to put it with maybe the salmon. How else can I use that Quinoa later on? Oh! I threw it on a salad for lunch or I actually mix it with oatmeal for breakfast. So, different ways to utilize that one product. You don’t have to eat a brand new thing every single day.

Mathea Ford: [00:18:07] When I managed the kitchen I would always write the menu and we would use the same chicken breast for five or six different meals. I wasn’t going to go buy you know bone in chicken, this type of chicken, that chicken just chicken breast and use it you know five 10 different ways or same thing with cuts of meat typically you know you can kind of cross. Use them in different recipes.

Julie Harrington: [00:18:33] Yeah definitely! Don’t be afraid to utilize leftovers. Another example recently. I made just a grilled chicken for one meal and that turned into two more meals – added to a salad for lunch and then we also cut it up and put it and made chicken quesadillas another night.

Mathea Ford: [00:18:51] Yeah! We had turkey last night for dinner and I was thinking I’m going to shredd that Turkey up that’s left and make like a little like you said like a sandwich type thing. So, how does meal planning even just doing the small simple changes how does that help someone to eat healthier?

Julie Harrington: [00:19:08] I think it takes away the stress around meal meal time just because you’re preparing your environment for you’re just preparing your environment. It’s like walking into a sporting game without any equipment on for that sport. You’re kind of like just winging it and like you’re going to get injured or you just kind of out in the open. What do I do now? So, the same thing goes to your kitchen environment and you want to have things stocked up so you can feel comfortable like walking in after a long day and I can put something together for dinner and just making sure that it’s something that you enjoy too. When people tell me “Oh! They’re meal prepping and they hate what they’re making. Why are you making it then?” Don’t force yourself to do something you don’t enjoy and you don’t like focus on making sure the meals are delicious something that satisfies you too. If it’s not satisfying you that’s not going to do anything good for you long term because you’re going to feel deprived.

Mathea Ford: [00:20:02] Yeah! You’re not going to want to eat that long term and you know thinking of healthier diet and we’ve talked a little bit about farmer’s markets and stuff and I know you help people focus on a more plant based diet or plant focused diet. Can you talk a little bit about that and how you can help people incorporate that more into their menu without necessarily being vegetarian?

Julie Harrington: [00:20:24] Yes definitely. So, I like the yes I’d definitely say that as well plant focused is it doesn’t mean 100 percent plant based but everyone can use a little more plants within their daily routine. A lot of times we talk about when we talk about plants people automatically only assume vegetables but we hear we’re talking about the fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds any plant product, whole grains or just regular grains in general. And I always like to challenge everyone to start with at least 50 percent of your plate being focused on plants and then try to even get to 75 percent of your plate focused on plants. So, different ways you can go about doing that is I don’t really like to say sneaking them in because I don’t like that kind of has a negative tone to it that you’re kind of hiding them. Kind of them where you can. Going back to that pancake mix that I like to use. I like to boost it up a little bit instead of just having the pancakes because I know that one can pancake using the batter is not going to satisfy me because there’s not enough fiber in there. So, I mash up a banana, I may add some blueberries in there. I like to smear some peanut butter on it instead of using maple syrup because now you’re incorporating more food groups and you’re also incorporating more plants and you have a more well balance meal out of it. So, the same thing goes for any meal. How can you fit in your plants without really needing to put any more effort in something that is enjoyable for you. Smoothies are such an easy way to add more plants. You can add more veggies into it, you can add chia seeds or flax seeds. First, another plant source focusing on again your dinner plate. A lot of times we lead with like when people say “what’s for dinner?” Everyone usually always leads with the animal source of protein “Oh! We’re having chicken!” Okay, but what else is with that? Let’s focus on the plants because a chicken shouldn’t be the star of the plate. That should maybe only take a little section of your plate but the rest can be focused on those plants.

Mathea Ford: [00:22:24] Once you start eating different plants and eating them more often you start to really enjoy them and the ways you can cook them. So, I love that.

Julie Harrington: [00:22:33] And also too adding more variety. What happens a lot of times too is we get stuck on the same things. Of course if you’re just munching on an apple every day for an afternoon snack like get that’s going to get boring after a while. But what if you’re not ready to change to a new piece of fruit? How many varieties of apples are there when you walk to the grocery store? Maybe even just trying to switch off the variety that you’re having.

Mathea Ford: [00:22:57] It’s a good tip. Speaking of the grocery store, when you’re grocery shopping I know you do probably a decent amount of this as well. Do you think it’s better to shop once a week or more often and how do you navigate the grocery store?

Julie Harrington: [00:23:14] I love this question because before I started my own business, I worked as a supermarket dietitian. So, my job was in the grocery store. I feel like I can navigate any grocery store really while now being in that kind of environment. So, when we’re talking about grocery shopping I really do recommend shopping at least once a week to get all your essentials for the week. I typically go maybe twice even three times a week just because my work requires me to where I’m like developing a recipe, I always need to buy some different ingredients and then what’s a typical day of pattern I’m needing. Navigating the grocery store, there’s all those things of saying “Oh only shop at the perimeter.” I don’t really agree with that. There are so many great things up and down the aisles as well. People always say “only the processed foods in the aisles” but processed is another word that we really need to start adding more of a positive twist. Not all processed food is created equally. There’s actually according to the FDA standards there’s all different levels of what processed foods are. So, peanut butter for example, that technically processed food. They’re taking peanuts, they’re grinding, they’re packaging and that’s processed. Your tuna, same thing but then also there’s the ultra processed foods that I don’t even know half those ingredients are. So, that’s a processed food as well. But all those items are in aisle so I don’t say skip the aisles. Really learn how to read a label properly working with a dietitian. A lot of dietitians offer grocery store tours so if you’re really confused maybe take that up as an option. So many times we are set in our ways we’re set in our same pattern of shopping at the grocery store. And I noticed that firsthand when I started working there. How many times you walk by all these great products but you don’t even notice them because you’re so on autopilot to get your grocery shopping done. Kind of take a moment. Maybe find some new food or new items that can appear in your grocery cart. I have a series called grocery store finds. Every month, I highlight about five products that just appeared in my cart. Just to say and to show people “Oh! This is the new products I found you might like it too.”.

Mathea Ford: [00:25:31] So, when you’re thinking about navigating the store, how do you recommend people go through? Because I’ve heard different things like do the produce last, like you said don’t do this in our aisles that type of thing but… So, how do you when you think about navigating, where do you recommend to start and kind of go through?

Julie Harrington: [00:25:51] I do recommend starting in the produce section. The groceries store is strategically set up in the way that it is for you to walk in and usually the first thing you go to is the produce department and you walk right into the produce department and there’s a reason for that. They want you to start getting a fresh produce but as a dietitian and a chef, I want you to really have your plants be the focus so starting with that fresh produce is fantastic. And then notice how you’re walking around the perimeter that’s where all of like you’re meat and your protein, your seafood department and then your dairy department. They want you had all those and not order because then at the end that’s when you get to the cashier where you’re putting all your cold stuff at the end. So, they strategically do that for you to shop that way. But I only just say start in the produce because again we want to be a little bit more focused and really just work up your grocery list. I don’t think there’s necessarily a foolproof method of we need to shop these sections first and last.

Mathea Ford: [00:26:56] So, do you ever do like the online ordering. I know that’s becoming more popular. Do you ever do that or do you think that’s a good idea?

Julie Harrington: [00:27:04] It really depends on the day, the week. I use the online grocery shopping a lot when I have my big cooking classes because number one and just saves me time. I don’t shop for a big family right now so I don’t mind doing my own personal grocery shopping on my own because it doesn’t take me that long but for busy families are online grocery shopping is awesome. At first, I was like “I like picking on my produce. I don’t want anyone else picking at my produce or I like picking out my meat or I’m very specific when it comes to certain things” but the grocery store near me does such a fantastic job. I just write little notes throughout my order saying for instance, like I got avocado the one day shop online. And I said please make sure that it’s ripe and ready to eat because I knew that I’d be needing it for a recipe the next day. I love it honestly because it saves you a lot of time and it really just depends on what your lifestyle is, what your preference is.

Mathea Ford: [00:27:59] I think it saves a little money too because you’re not walking up and down the aisles and going “Oh yeah! Maybe I should get, that maybe I should get that!”

Julie Harrington: [00:28:07] You can actually really stick to the grocery list. And also another cool thing about that is too that I come across coupons that I don’t even know were available at that moment or I’ll be shopping for something in they’re like “would you like to add this to dollar off coupon? Of course I will to save money!”.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:24] Yeah! Thank you. I always ask my guests what is their favorite food.

Julie Harrington: [00:28:30] Oh! This is always my hardest question to answer. But if there’s a food that I pretty much eat every day it’s peanut butter in some form. So I’m going to go with peanut butter as my answer.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:40] Okay! I’ve love peanut butter too it’s good. You like chunky, creamy or what?

Julie Harrington: [00:28:45] I always have both on hand. I honestly I guess I’m like a nut butter fanatic. I have right now I probably have at least four different jars opened.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:55] Well that’s very interesting. I just came back from the International Food Bloggers Conference and we saw some different foods. And one of them was a new nut butter that has sunflower seeds. It’s basically targeted towards people with peanut allergy.

Julie Harrington: [00:29:10] Is it sun butter?

Mathea Ford: [00:29:12] Sun butter! Yeah I think that is.

Julie Harrington: [00:29:13] Oh yeah! That one’s that I I used that in my kids’ cooking class a lot since there’s usually nut allergy.

Mathea Ford: [00:29:19] Yeah! That’s an awesome product that was really good. Does it have like Quinoa in it? I’m like crazy.

Julie Harrington: [00:29:24] There is one with Quinoa in it. That’s really cool.

Mathea Ford: [00:29:26] Yeah! So, There’s lots of varieties of nut butters doesn’t always have to be just peanut butter but yeah! I’ve just recently learned I did not realized that sunflower seeds are not necessarily like they’re okay for people with a peanut allergy. Julie, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. It was a pleasure to have you on the show. I know my listeners learned a lot about just different kitchen confidence, choosing different things and trying to spice up their diet a little. So, if listeners want to connect with you, what’s the best way to do that?

Julie Harrington: [00:29:59] You can find me directly from my website JulieHarringtonRD.com. I have a Contact page where you can directly e-mail me or on social media I am @chefJulie_RD.

Mathea Ford: [00:30:12] Great! Well guys, this has been another great episode of the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast that is all about learning more so you can do more with nutrition in your life.

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Nutrition Experts Podcast Episode 24 Men’s Nutrition Goals and Hospital Food By David Egerdahl

October 15, 2018 by matheaford Leave a Comment

David Egerdahl is a Registered Dietitian Nutritionist, Patient Services Manager and Nutrition Coach in Colorado Springs, CO. His main passion is men’s diet and nutrition. David is the Dietitian you see when you want to make gains in your, health, fitness, and life. You can find David at nutritiongains.com where he offers a blog and nutrition coaching for everything from fat loss, muscle building, and better diet in general, to improving diet at work, eating for better mood, and men’s health. He also loves speaking to large groups about a variety of nutrition topics to groups, on stage or on TV. David believes good nutrition in not just important for improving and maintaining your health but also other aspects of your life from business/career, to finances, to family. He also enjoys powerlifting, basketball, and Rick and Morty.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:27] Hi there! It’s Mathea. Welcome back to the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast featuring nutrition experts who are leading the way using food starts today right now with our next guest. It’s great to have Dave Egerdahl on the show today. Dave welcome Nutrition Experts. I’m excited to have you on the show and share your expertise with my tribe.

David Egerdahl: [00:00:49] No problem Mathea. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:52] So, Dave we’re going to talk today about a few different topics but I’d like to start with letting you tell my listeners a little more about you and what you do.

David Egerdahl: [00:01:00] So, right now I’ll wear a few different hats. I’m a Patient Services Manager in a hospital in Colorado Springs. Basically what that entails is managing not only the room service aspect but the nutrition aspect that goes a long list with dealing with all those different diets and menus and what not. I also do a lot of diet, nutrition, public relations stuff for the hospital like last week I was doing live television. Next week I’ll be doing a heart healthy event where I’m doing a cooking demonstration on how to cook Quinoa you know things like that. And then since I just can’t stay away from nutrition counseling and coaching, I do do some coaching on the side as a kind of I guess a side hustle you could say.

Mathea Ford: [00:01:51] Where do you go to school?

David Egerdahl: [00:01:53] University of North Dakota.

Mathea Ford: [00:01:55] Okay. So, you didn’t stray too far from home?

David Egerdahl: [00:02:00] Right!

Mathea Ford: [00:02:00] So, I think it’s interesting to talk about dietitians working in Patient Services. I did that almost my entire career and I love food service. So, I would love you to talk a little bit about what it’s like to manage a room service kitchen and what kind of room service like in a hospital? Because that’s maybe a new concept for people or maybe people have heard of it and they don’t understand how it works.

David Egerdahl: [00:02:27] Sure. It is you know I think in the past the expectation for hospital food has been you know I get my Salisbury Steak and dry mashed potatoes and some jello and that’s my meal. But yeah it’s changed a lot over the years where it’s a room service style the same sort of style you would see in a hotel where patients are calling down placing their order. And we have unique sophisticated systems to track allergies, track diet needs etc. and still allow them to get a pretty decent meal in the hospital while they’re getting better. It’s a whole complicated system with not just the you know the order taking but then you know the production of it and the delivery of it. There’s all kind of it’s new technology to help track delivery times and all these sort of things. So, it’s pretty cool, unique, complicated all rolled into one but it’s it’s a fun challenge to have.

Mathea Ford: [00:03:28] So, if I’m a patient in your hospitals do I have to pay extra to get room service versus just a regular tray?

David Egerdahl: [00:03:34] Absolutely not! No. No. And I’m sure the way it gets billed is different in every hospital but I know for us it’s just part of the stay. So, no, no it’s not extra. That’s that’s the price of admission is you get that perk.

Mathea Ford: [00:03:51] So, do patients have something in their room based on their diet? What they can eat? Or how do they know what they can order?

David Egerdahl: [00:03:59] In most places, in our place I’ll use my place an example. So, we have our regular menu and then so that takes care about 60 percent of the patients because that’s what we find are our regular menu in our hospital. And then we have diabetics which makes up the next bulk. And the way we communicate that to them is through the nursing staff to doctors they’re letting them know we’re pretty tight in your diet or such and such reason. Whatever that [00:04:24] AP [0.3] and sometimes is new to them which is it’s a challenge in itself. And then we have the carb counts and the menu so that that takes care and maybe another 20 percent and then another about 15 percent maybe on a heart healthy. So, we use ways to indicate whether a meal item or a menu item rather is heart healthy was little emblem next to it that’s heart healthy and that takes care about 95 percent of the diets the rest of them get a little complicated. So, we create special menus distribute those when we need to.

David Egerdahl: [00:04:58] And then along with that, the diet operators are trained in diets by a dietitian so they can help them along the way and Health Touch which is our just our system that we use to help with meal ordering gives all that information of what sodium, fat, carbohydrate whatever nutrient you want to be tracking for that patient is in there.

Mathea Ford: [00:05:20] They have a menu in their room and they call down. It seems to me like that would be more expensive for food service. So, is your hospital more of like a higher end hospital or is it more expensive to have room service than regular like trays that people just get automatically?

David Egerdahl: [00:05:40] Not necessarily. Once you have the infrastructure there it’s not much more expensive. I hope I’m not giving away any secrets but the industry standard for a tray cost is about a dollar and 80 cents. And we are below that. So, we’re offering these these menus and the reason why we’re able to do because we’re a relatively large hospital and so we can use kind of economies of scale to make food costs low, labor costs low and then the cost of operating overhead that gets eaten up just by the sheer volume that we do.

Mathea Ford: [00:06:16] I guess what I’m thinking is somebody on a clear liquid diet. Do they get to call then order room service?

David Egerdahl: [00:06:23] Yes. Yeah! We do that right. We have a whole list of clear liquids that are you know some your typical clear liquids like [00:06:31] Brock [0.4] and jello and those sort of things but then we you know we offer Gatorade or you know certain things that are you know not the typical liquid. And we try really hard to work with the docs and nurses on protocols where they don’t have to be on clear liquids all that long. Because the research is finding that you know people are doing pretty fine if they are given a kind of a la carte. You know allow them to order some regular meal items as long as they’re not too hard on the stomach or whatever unless it’s like a G.I. surgery then there’s definitely some special considerations there.

Mathea Ford: [00:07:10] You know I’m thinking I have a regular tray and it’s got all the food on it. Whether you wanted it or not it’s got you know a milk or coffee or tea, it’s got a dessert, it’s got the entrees, it’s got vegetable sides and when people called down I’m guessing they’re just ordering whatever they’re in the mood for. So, if all they want is a hamburger and some fries or whatever. They probably eat that more so than… You find that they eat better and that they you know have eat a better portion of their trays, less food waste?

David Egerdahl: [00:07:42] I don’t know that we really track that necessarily. So, the big thing that drives why a hospital would want a room service style dining is the personalization that it allows the patient. So, most hospitals measure patient satisfaction through a third party survey and there is a financial incentive for hospitals to have a high patient satisfaction score. And also it’s just good for the hospital to be rated high on that regard. So, room service style dining drives that when a hospital has room service style dining. Their patient satisfaction scores improved immensely compared to like the older you know “Here’s what’s for lunch of thing. Take it or leave it. Patients nowadays like to have a little bit more control what’s going on in hospital stay and food service and nutrition is a big part of that.

Mathea Ford: [00:08:40] Once you’re in a hospital there’s very little that you have control over and really being able to make some choices you know you don’t know when you’re going to get your surgery or you don’t know when people are going to come near into your room and talk to you or how long you’re going to be there. But having that choice would seem to be an excellent thing. So, is it I guess I didn’t get you to answer the question is it pretty popular in hospitals or is it still some that’s growing?

David Egerdahl: [00:09:08] It’s becoming the standard. It’s becoming something that most hospitals do. The reason why you wouldn’t maybe do that sort of style dining is because if you’re a 20 bed hospital and you know there’s just not enough folks to justify doing that sort of thing. You know it might not be for you but if you’re you know 150, 200, 300 and up bed hospital it’s very… It’s not only very cost effective, it’s very good on your you know the satisfaction of the patient or the quality of their stay.

Mathea Ford: [00:09:47] Something else you mentioned that you do at your hospital is like media relations, nutrition. So, how does that work how do you get those opportunities?

David Egerdahl: [00:09:56] Relationships. So, one of the things I love to do is speak in front of groups. I love to do that. I love to you know not just you know as a patient services manager, training, staffer or running a meeting but I love to talk to groups about various nutrition topics like I do a monthly once you learn from the hospital. The last one we did was you know healthy fats because you know pretty basic topic that the layperson doesn’t have a lot of information about. I Just love getting in front of people helping them in that way providing any guided or information I can give them and do it in a way that they can receive and is meaningful to them is really important. Just having that like I don’t do that necessarily because I’m going to get anything back. I just enjoy doing it and I find that you know what the more I do stuff like that the more people will notice and say “oh they might be good for this or they might be good for that.” So I get all these opportunities and I’m not shy either so I’ll stand in front of a camera. I’ll get on a radio station, I’ll do a podcast. Not a lot of dietitians I find have that outgoing personality. Least like the ones I’ve worked with in the hospital. They’re kind of a shy away from that but I’ve always enjoyed it. In my past I did a diabetic self-management. And the part of that was a monthly course that would talk to groups of people so I just sharpen my skills.

Mathea Ford: [00:11:26] I get you because I do love talking about nutrition and I do it all the time because I have this podcast. But I just love talking and hearing that interaction and being able to see what questions people have. Being able to explain things maybe more clearly than the quick snippet that they saw on a TV show or on the morning news or whatever. So, do you find you get asked a lot of kind of questions about what’s in the news and stuff when you’re on your presentations?

David Egerdahl: [00:11:58] You know some of the common stuff. You know what’s popular now so like Vegan Diets. I get asked a lot about that. I get asked a lot about keto. I get asked a lot. You name the sad I get asked about it. So, yeah you gotta be prepared for that. And then like if anything likes comes out of the news, people will ask my opinion of it or even if they’re just doing something kind of you know that I wasn’t even aware of. Like one time I was walking through the halls of a hospital and the media relations person said they’re doing a thing on strokes and “So, what’s your opinion on that?” I jokingly said “I’m against them. If you can not have those shows will be good.”.

Mathea Ford: [00:12:42] Yeah! You could avoid that.

David Egerdahl: [00:12:42] The more you put yourself out there I feel like the more that comes back to you. It’s like it’s not anything I’m necessarily like advertising that I do or promoting that I do but you know just being willing to do it creates those opportunities if you like.

Mathea Ford: [00:12:56] Yes! That’s a good tip for people that are listening that may want to do more of that is just to start seeing where you can do some small things maybe.

David Egerdahl: [00:13:06] And definitely starting out, I mean it’s you know some people like you know what they want to be compensated for their time. I think really does it start out that way. Usually it starts out you’re kind of volunteering or you’re doing it out of sheer enjoyment. And then it builds into that once you know you started building a fan base and a demand in all this stuff. So…

Mathea Ford: [00:13:26] From your perspective, one of the things that you like to talk about on your blog and we’ve talked about is how men and women’s nutrition is different. So, can you talk a little bit about that? About how maybe people could see that it’s different because I think it’s always interesting to get different points of view.

David Egerdahl: [00:13:49] The field is still pretty well dominated by women but it is just something I had a passion for. So, it’s what I decided I wanted to do. One of my first roles was a nutrition counselor. You know I would see diabetic patients, bariatric patients, renal patient here there and then one off in between. “Oh! I want to lose weight or I want to lower my cholesterol or stuff like that. So, I started to notice that whenever I would get a guy consult, it would usually be a situation where his wife was coming along and I feel like the guy always had kind of a standoffish like “Okay, it’s going to be me and the Mrs against him and the Mrs. against mee and I got you know I got to go through this kind of thing.” You know I started to notice that and I would “Why is that happening?” So I kind of did some research and you know typically guys it is changing a little bit. The guys you know when they’re trying to get healthy they don’t really seek diet as a means to do that, they might do more exercise or something like that but I started to approach relate to guys on a guy level. And you know I started to learn more about you know the differences in men’s nutrition and women’s nutrition. Basically, there’s no difference. All the nutrients that are essential for men are essential for women. There’s no difference there but where the differences come into play is you know a guy can get it all away with eating a little bit more food just because you know the differences in size so the calories are more. But also attitudes and preferences like men tend to be more meat eaters and that sort of thing. And you start to realize well maybe there’s a the reason for that. Maybe there’s for instance men produce much more testosterone than women and there’s a whole metabolism and nutrient need that goes around all of that. So you know what are those nutrient needs? And how can we provide those from there and then? And how can we let guys take control of their nutrition rather than kind of let the Mrs. handle that kind of thing? Once I started taking more reproach were like “Sir, I’m helping you. If you’re not interested in my help I understand but you need to take responsibility for your nutrition.” I got a better response from guys because I think part of that is I’m a guy as well but the other thing is like you know “I don’t have to eat which she eats” you know and you know that’s kind of the way it ends up going sometimes is whoever’s the cook in the family and traditionally it’s been the women. They kind of just put whatever and in front of the guy and he’s like “oh! This is what’s for dinner tonight now that I have to watch my blood sugar.” So, finding ways to meet guys’ food preference in a way that you know that’s not taken away their beer or whatever the thing is that they want to hold on to and men just tend to have different goals I think than women in health. Just you know working with people that I do have found that guys tend to have more they’re more concerned with you know how they perform, how they feel rather than like finding getting a weight loss resolved or what have you. Were women there that you know if the doctor tells of their blood sugar is high they want to correct that immediately on the spot. That’s a motivator for them. It’s not necessarily for guys and I know that’s surprising to hear. “If my blood sugar is high so what? What was that matter?” So now I’m get long winded here. But yeah that’s that’s kind of you know some of the basic differences I’ve noticed.

Mathea Ford: [00:17:24] I think it’s interesting because as a dietitian you know working for a long time I noticed a pattern to. I noticed that and I’m always happy when the spouse comes along because that way there’s not the friction of trying to change later and obviously it’s a generational thing a lot of times where the woman wife whatever does most of the cooking. But interesting to think about men’s weight loss calls differently are men’s nutrition health fitness goals whatever because when we talk to them it’s that switch that you’re talking about whereas finding out what they’re interested in changing. And as you said that I think about my husband because he’s gained a little weight and he constantly talks about how he doesn’t feel good and he wants to lose the weight. So, it is related to how he wants to feel. It’s not necessarily about the number on the scale. That’s a good thought for people to have when they’re talking to people just realize you know the perspective difference that’s an excellent point.

David Egerdahl: [00:18:34] Yeah! And that’s I would say that’s the main difference because when you really like boil it down and reduce it it’s you know we all need to eat healthy and that’s what the layers beyond that are just like well what is motivating this person to want to do that? Because people say “Oh I should do this or should do that.” Is that really what you want to do? You know when you really ask that question. Well, now, I’d really rather do this you know. So, it’s finding I guess you know what that motivator is and relating to it and finding solutions for.

Mathea Ford: [00:19:11] That just reminds me a little bit that I recently had a little bit of an epiphany thinking about how we think about goals as far as trying to get away from something vs. trying to go towards something. Because once you’re getting away from something then you kind of get a little more relaxed vs. if you’re trying to go towards something. For example at A1C number or something like that. You’re more apt to reach it because you’re going for that number instead of trying to avoid something. Can you talk a little bit about dietitians do nutrition counseling? Typically, I see a lot of nutrition coaching. Can you tell me a little bit about what you think is the difference between those two and how you approach it?

David Egerdahl: [00:19:57] From a practical standpoint from the nutritionist. There’s really no difference. You’re still doing an assessment. Still coming up with some sort of nutrition diagnosis and then following up and monitoring you know when I try to think of some good differences, I know that when I was in a counseling role I was seeing more diabetic more, bariatric, stuff that was covered by insurance. So, they were referred to by a physician to me and you know that’s that whole game coaching you really is more like you know “I got a goal and I knew I really need somebody’s help to get there” whether that be you know in terms of a nutritionist, whether that’s just eating healthy or weight loss or gaining muscle or whatever it is. I guess that would be the main difference.

Mathea Ford: [00:20:48] If someone is getting nutrition coaching you seem a little bit more like not necessarily having goals of medical or lab related stuff but more just personal weight or fitness or something like that? Is that what you’d say?

David Egerdahl: [00:21:04] I think that’s fair to say. I think that’s fair to say. I think especially in a hospital setting for example which I don’t know. I kind of think of it as nutrition counseling but some may not. That’s a captive audience. They may not necessarily want to see you but you know if you’re putting yourself out there as a coach and you’re saying you know I’m offering this service for you if you’d like you’re getting somebody who maybe a little more motivated. Maybe you know has a goal in mind where you know that counselor or that person that’s the doctors you know forcing them to see a nutritionist or whatever. They might have a goal. They may not even be ready for change just yet. So, you got to kind of you know if you can try to figure out how to get them from there.

Mathea Ford: [00:21:51] Yes. Since you deal a lot with the healthy diet in the hospital and then working with people doing different things. Can you talk a little bit to the audience about how a healthy diet is different from a weight loss diet? Because I think a lot of times people think “I’ve got to get on a diet to lose weight and then I could eat differently whenever I’m done losing weight” I guess. So can you talk a little bit about that?

David Egerdahl: [00:22:18] The thing I’ve noticed is that you know people are using healthy diet and weight loss diet synonyms and which they can be at times. But you start to see some of the stuff that people are you know doing to try to lose weight are not necessarily the healthiest things point to any fad. And you can just you couldn’t. You can see well that might not be sustainable long term. You might end up having some trouble with that in the future. I remember one time going on TV they asked me to talk about diet cleanses, these liquid cleanses. I think they fully expected me to say something different that I did say because I you know I pretty much put him down as these are not a healthy sustainable way to lose weight.

David Egerdahl: [00:23:06] And essentially the weight you’re losing during that week of clenses is water weight. So, if you’re using that as a means of weight loss you know I don’t think that’s the most effective or efficient means. And then you also look at the fitness industry and you see these very fit people like fitness competitors and bodybuilders and stuff like that and they you know it’s assumed that these people must be doing you know they must have the healthiest lifestyle, the healthiest diet and a lot of things they do are very healthy, a lot of things they do are very extreme and very taxing on the body and not always the best for oneself.

Mathea Ford: [00:23:41] Sometimes, I think everybody should consider that they should be on a healthy diet whether they’re trying to lose weight or not.

David Egerdahl: [00:23:48] Right. Anything any health behavior you do is going to you know whether it’s taking a medication or follow a diet protocol or do an exercise program. It’s going to have some side effects whether good or bad. We can point all the side effects medications but you know their side effects associated with certain diets. If you start to exercise program that you’re not acclimated towards you’re going to have some pretty serious side effects you’re going to be very sore. You’re going to feel stress. You’re going to feel like you don’t want to do this. And there’s probably a reason that your body’s not ready for it. So, when I see things like you know people wanting to do Keto or people wanted to do fasting or you know I encouraged them to anything. “Okay. You know I’m not against you trying that but I want you to consider you know is this something you’re going to be able to sustain? And if not what do you plan to do once you’re done with it?” Because we all know about the yo yo diet syndrome and that’s essentially not having a plan for once your diet fails. That’s basically you know these protocols you know you see a lot of research and there’s research really to back up anything as long as you have strong enough belief about it. And there’s research to disprove it but it’s just a matter of what are you doing why are you wanting to do that? And what’s your plan B? Because if you’ve ever done a low carb diet before and you try it for a week or two or a month and you decide “this is not for me” what’s your plan B? Because that’s pretty typical is that you know people try something like that go strong for a month and then it falls apart.

Mathea Ford: [00:25:34] Being in Colorado, we all know Colorado has recreational and medical marijuana. I would just be interested what you see people using medical marijuana for that seems to be pretty effective with relations to any sort of nutrition stuff. You got any ideas about that?

David Egerdahl: [00:25:53] Typically what I see people using like edibles or smoke marijuana for is either like for a while is doing oncology inpatient nutrition and you know that’s something that’s very popular. The folks who are going through that sort of treatment it’s just like another thing it’s just like curcumins and it’s just like another thing where people you know they’ve latched on to this you know the benefits of this one single thing. And they you know build products around it to try to you know sell it basically. I got to be honest I’m not too up to date on all the research of it because I think a healthy lifestyle doesn’t necessarily need to include marijuana even though I live in Colorado. I’m probably going to alienate a lot of people in Colorado but I don’t think it’s you know it’s a cure all. I’m sure there are some benefits to it because you know you know it’s being used but I don’t know that you know that’s something I can confidently tell people you should try this because I think it’ll help you with XYZ.

Mathea Ford: [00:27:04] Okay. So, one of the questions I always like to ask my guests is what is your favorite food?

David Egerdahl: [00:27:11] Pizza.

Mathea Ford: [00:27:13] Pizza. Any specific pizza?

David Egerdahl: [00:27:15] No! Just pepperoni pizza is my favorite food. I know that’s probably you know something you don’t expect a dietitian to say. But we’re human too. We eat what we like. We like pizza and chocolate and occasional alcoholic beverage. So, I will say that I’ve tried to make more of a traditional style pizza these days where it’s more of a thinner crust, more heavier on the on the fresh ingredients maybe like I’ve tried one recently with goat cheese rather than like a mozzarella because it’s a little bit lower in fat than some roast cheeses out there. So, it’s my vice. I won’t lie. I try to eat healthy 80 to 90 percent of the time but if there’s a pizza party going on I’m going to party for sure.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:06] It’s got all the food groups. Right?

David Egerdahl: [00:28:07] No! I hate that too. I hate when people say to justify. Just accept that it’s not healthy. And that’s okay. Okay? That’s all right. That it’s not healthy.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:19] All foods can fit.

David Egerdahl: [00:28:20] Yes. But I don’t like when you know. Well, Chocolate’s healthy right? Because if you got the dark chocolate. Yeah, you know. Yeah, dark chocolate is great but have you had actual real dark chocolate? Do you really like it? Because I would venture to guess that if you had a 100 percent cocoa that you’re not too into it.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:42] Yeah! That would be very bitter.

David Egerdahl: [00:28:43] But just just just be okay. Oh that’s another thing I like is people don’t put too much pressure on themselves to feel like that they should eat away or they have to eat away. And if they don’t that it’s some sort of they’ve committed some sort of sin. Just be ok with that. Just allow it. And part of taking care of yourself is allowing you know getting the nutrients you want or need rather but also allowing yourself to enjoy some of the things you do like. I mean don’t don’t make it a lifestyle obviously but I mean don’t don’t beat yourself up if you had some cheesecake you know because it’s fine. Don’t let that ruin you.

Mathea Ford: [00:29:26] Gotcha! I love that because if you can add a little bit of mindfulness and portion you know just getting enough to really satisfy that urge and then let it go. That’s a great way to still get those things you want.

David Egerdahl: [00:29:42] I like to use the term love. We should we should love ourselves and you know what kind of ways do we love ourselves. Well, what kind of ways do we love others. We cook for them. We keep them warm, we give them gifts. You should be doing those things for yourself too. You should be putting the stuff in you that is good for you and allowing yourself some of those things that are you know delicious but not so good for you and you should be allowing yourself to have breaks and things like that. You know the things that we do to love others we should be doing for ourselves too so that we can love others better.

Mathea Ford: [00:30:15] That’s excellent point. Dave, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. It was a pleasure to have you on the show. I know my listeners learned a lot about Room Service, menus, all the different stuff we talked about today. So if listeners want to connect with you what’s the best way to do that?

David Egerdahl: [00:30:32] On Facebook. Nutrition Gains with Dave Egerdahl. I’m on Twitter David E RDN. And then I have a website NutritionGains.com where people can find me.

Mathea Ford: [00:30:43] Okay. Well, guys this has been another great episode of the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast that is all about learning more so you can do more with nutrition in your life.

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Nutrition Experts Podcast Episode 23 Award Winning School Lunches By Putting Kids First with Deborah Taylor

October 8, 2018 by matheaford Leave a Comment

Deborah Taylor, RDN/LD, SNS is a long time school nutrition professional. She has spent over 20 years working to bring healthy food to kids in public schools. She has won awards, been recognized nationally and recently was given the Distinguished Alumna Award from her Alma Mater.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:28] Hey there! It’s Mathea. Welcome back to Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast featuring nutrition experts who are leading the way using food starts today right now with our next guest. It’s great to have Deborah Taylor on the show today. Deborah, welcome to Nutrition Experts. I’m excited to have you on the show and share your expertise with my tribe.

Deborah Taylor: [00:00:48] Thank you! I love getting the chance of getting to be here. I am a registered dietitian and I’m Registered Dietitian/Nutritionist. It is a great field and I’ve gotten have a lot of fun in it.

Mathea Ford: [00:01:00] Yes! So, we’re going to talk today about school nutrition but I want you to start with telling my listeners a little more about yourself and what you do and I know you have a long career. So feel free to call it more about you.

Deborah Taylor: [00:01:16] Okay. Thank you. I went back to college as a grown up that my husband was in was drafted into the military back in the day. So, that tells you how old I am. And after him being in the service for three years then he said one day hey I think you should go to college with me. And it’s like “Whoa! We can’t afford that.” And he said “we’ve lived on so little money for so long I think we should try.” Best gift he ever gave me and obviously financially it was that great. It was a nice thing for the two of us too. So, we started at Oklahoma State University and yeah go pokes! And again we kind bleed orange around here. Excellent dietetic program that was called [00:02:04] Feds [0.2] Nutrition and Institution Administration. The hotel and restaurant… They had the Hotel and Restaurant Administration degree at the same place. So I got to learn. We all learn that as a dietitian. We learn that service management. And I got to have that kind of creativity that can that sometimes hotel folks, restaurant folks have that sometimes those of us that are trained more institutionally we lack. And for me that’s been a big help. I’ve fed kids. Different jobs I’ve had because we moved a lot was at the beginning. I’ve fed kids at Oklahoma State University but also at Texas Christian University down in Fort Worth. And I think that college and university feeding is a really fun place to do food service management if you know people haven’t thought about that. The deal was it didn’t have anything to do with nutrition and that also… Anyway, I ended up taking I’ve said I’ve done some things with long term care facilities and things but and I’ve been a research dietitian when were in Louisiana. That was fun for a little brief period. And my favorite job was working with family practice residents in [00:03:24] Port Barre. [0.4]

Deborah Taylor: [00:03:25] With that job then I worked out to work out of an office working with patients who were sometimes low standard readers. They were mainly poor and I got to use my Spanish which was fun. And then I also got to keep up with the real in-depth things because I was the nutrition resource person for the family practice residence. It’s a job like for me I could have done that my whole life and been very rewarded and fulfilled with my career path. But we moved again. So, though after a couple of places we ended up in the Oklahoma City area specifically in Shawnee at that I was working with Weick and enjoyed that and had been doing it for nearly a year. And I got a phone call asking me to apply at Chinese schools to be their food service director and I said “oh that sounds like fun” and in two or three years maybe when my youngest at that time was 4 years old and I knew what food service management careers were like. They’re all encompassing. They said “oh these jobs come open very often. The lady that’s retiring right now was there twelve years and the one before that was 18 years.” And I said “Oh! Well, I guess I can apply.” And so I applied and I was the one that was given the position. And I ended up being at Shawnee Schools then running their food service operations for 22 years. After 22 years then Oklahoma City Schools called and asked if I would apply there. They had decided to move back to self op from self operations from a food service management company. They then hired Kevin Ponce from Mid-Del school and Nate from Shawnee school. Nate is the director and I was the associate director and I did that for four years and then I just retired from school. So I don’t feel retired yet at all. And I will be looking to doing teaching and training things continuing that part of what I do with my life. So having to do with school. So, school nutrition is a very intense and different field that it is a great place for registered dietitian.

Mathea Ford: [00:06:00] I have you know I’m a food service dietitian too. I went to see huge food service school and food service on cooking. So, I know that while you’re at Shawnee you have special recognition with some of the Michelle Obama Initiative. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Deborah Taylor: [00:06:22] My program in about 2006 I believe was featured in Time Magazine as one of the ones who followed all the rules, did not take money from outside sources and did a better job than what we had to do nutrition wise. And then when Michelle Obama was writing her book American Grown then my Farm to School Program there at Shawnee was featured on a whole page of her book American Grown is one of the stories of one of the things that we did with farm to school and Shawnee schools. In 2014 my favorite award because it’s so not in school nutrition where I’m with people that know me and know they can actually grade and judge what I’m doing in my field. I was chosen by Oklahoma State University my college there as I got the Distinguished Alumni Award.

Deborah Taylor: [00:07:31] And that was a very big surprise to me and it was a nice verification that school meals are important. And that the work that I had in doing was important and was perceived as important by the people that provided that education for me in the first place. So, I was also District Director of the Year for the State of Oklahoma. And that then I was awarded that award also for the region which is a 6A Region. I was in the right place in the right time. And I look at other dietitians and go see it was a good thing to be doing. When you get out of this state like Oklahoma let’s say in Georgia. Georgia is a prime example of that wonderful things in school nutrition services. Every daddy is a director has to have a master’s degree or be a registered dietitian. So… But they also have school districts that are the entire county and not all these little bitty school districts like we have.

Mathea Ford: [00:08:40] You know you kind of sit there at the end. But I think it’s really important to acknowledge that you love what you’re doing. we all we all have friends about different things and you are passionate about school food service in school. And those kids get them try new things. I always say “thank goodness for the way they do. School Nutrition because my kids tried a variety of foods and now they come home and I have hand them on the plate or whatever and go eat it.

Deborah Taylor: [00:09:13] Yes.

Mathea Ford: [00:09:13] Instead of me having to throw all through that. They saw their friends eat it. They saw their peers eat it. They thought “Oh! I can try it.” But they did learn to like it.

Deborah Taylor: [00:09:24] I was too busy buying food, planning menus, hiring peopl, training people, making, running the big food service operation. And then the hidden part of school nutrition is all the governments. It’s a huge government program. So you have free in latest mail application and you have computer systems that you have to buy that you have to train your people on that keep kids in categories. You’ve got all of the big stuff going on. So, as I thought when I took the job. “Oh and that’ll be able to do nutrition education with these kids and go in the classroom” or you know I just had this idea that I’d be able to do actual nutrition education with kids. In 22 years, I had three days that I got into classrooms and about three days. I mean that’s like nothing right? It’s because the job is so huge. I did my level best with the actual foods that I was buying that I was providing for them then that’s how I feel like I got to provide nutrition education to all of the kids in Shawnee.

Mathea Ford: [00:10:44] So, I know you did some other wonderful things in Oklahoma City. So, specifically, you got some grants to provide a free meals. So, can talk a little bit about that?

Deborah Taylor: [00:10:57] A big huge part of the Federal Child Nutrition Program is that we provide meals at no charge to kids who don’t we have very much money. And so in order to do that most of your school districts out there the kids every year as part of the enrollment process are there is a application for free and reduced meals. And it’s a family application now. Several years ago as part of the Paperwork Reduction Act then the government folks started looking at all of these free and reduced meal applications that they have to be done every year from scratch starting over. It is a huge amount of paperwork. And then every single time a child walks in and gets a meal then we have to count that child. And what category they’re in. In order to claim reimbursement for those meals. So, there we had these huge paperwork and computer requirements and that’s what we’re audited on. Nobody ever audited me on how good that feed was. How much the kids were eating? How they set the ball. The different things that I did were. Well, that is part of the auditing process at all. Several others said “why why do we have to do all this?” So, because the poorest kids are the ones that were trying to make sure have food. Then they came up with with a provision that is called Community Eligibility Provision. Also named CEP. Now those of you guys that have been in the know so we work that with school nutrition we’ve had provision 1, 2 and 3 as the options since the late 1990s I believe. They are there and that they help the little bit. This originally was called provision 4. Nobody knew that we had 1, 2 and 3 so they they gave the name Community Eligibility Provision.

Deborah Taylor: [00:13:04] And the idea is that if you have kids who are getting things like SNAP benefits, [00:13:13] Tanaiste benefits, [1.2] Indian Commodities Food PIR or FDPIR depending on your tribe. Their families have already provided and done a lot of paperwork in order to get that. So, if your community when by your community we start with the individual school site. If your school site has at least 40 percent of the kids in that building that get that benefits or one of these other government benefits then you can apply for these Community Eligibility Provision and and stop doing the free and reduced meal applications and start keeping track of each child by category. So that is what Community Eligibility Means. It means that the community that you’re providing to already has shown that it’s poor enough to have to provide all of the meals at no charge. And then what you do it’s like a game and I do love games. And so you begin, you are allowed then to combine school sites together and your reimbursement is based on how many of your kids get SNAP benefits and the other benefits that fall into this. The majority are the SNAP benefits and then how many then you can get as many school sites together as possible and you can do it a year allowed it. Any school district can do it. That means that 40 percent requirement in the first place that you have to decide “can I afford to do it?” To me it never made any difference to the child I was feeding. If their daddy was a millionaire it didn’t matter if they were spending a million to that they mainly because of health problems or whatever that child may not have lunch money.

Deborah Taylor: [00:15:21] And then what am I supposed to do? What’s my manager supposed to do if they’ve run out of money and they are in their accounts? Then, everybody talks about shaming kids and that type of thing. It’s like “wait a minute! The way the system is set up parents have to send money or their kids don’t get to eat.

Mathea Ford: [00:15:42] What happened is you said you were able to combine schools. So, at some point you provided free meals to the entire school not just that 40 percent that qualify. Correct?

Deborah Taylor: [00:15:54] Right! Okay, so yes. So, in Oklahoma City the very first year that I was there is the first year that CEP Community Eligibility Provision was available for all of the states in the United States. They had done pilot states leading up to it. And so my first year there we got 55 of our 80 schools. We got 55 of the schools onto the Community Eligibility Provision. It was amazing. That was two thirds of our children. Then I was able to do the math, point out that I felt like we could make it financially. And we got all of the school sites on to the Community Eligibility Provision. Last year was the first year that we had that in Oklahoma City schools. So, the entire Oklahoma City School are on the Community Eligibility Provision and that means we go no kids have to fill out a free and reduced meal application. That means in Oklahoma City it’s our largest school district in Oklahoma. We had an entire building that housed Free and Reduced meal applications.

Deborah Taylor: [00:17:11] When I started working there there was a whole building that was filled with free and reduced meal applications. It was unbelievable. I mean when people don’t work in this field they would be shocked at how much paperwork this program can arrange. The only purpose in it is keeping kids in categories so that we make sure we don’t claim too much money for a child who’s maybe their family makes 80,000 a year and the cutoff was 60,000. It’s like “who cares?” I honestly think that we should be at the point in the United States of America that when kids go to public schools they get a healthy meal. That’s part of what their day includes. We don’t find out the how rich or poor they are in order to ride a school bus. We don’t say we only give textbooks to the poorest kids and all the rest of you. We need you to come up with the money to buy it. Public school is public school. And I think that a healthy meal, a healthy lunch and now just because we know how much better children learn when they do eat breakfast. And I think having them start the day with a healthy breakfast and let’s just pay for that. But then the money that we’re spending on computers and on paper work let’s spend that money on food and just provide these meals for kids.

Mathea Ford: [00:18:43] So, if somebody’s a dietitian in school nutrition working maybe they’re new and they knew that atleast 40 percent of their community was even eligible for these free and reduced lunches. This might be a program that they should start giving in to. Is that what they can do?

Deborah Taylor: [00:19:03] Yes. And all of that data is available online. I can look and see what your kids, I know what school district your kids go to let’s say. And I can go online and look at the not just the whole district and what these numbers are for the district that I can look at each individual school building and see what each school building. Yes. And this is available to everybody nationwide. And it’s on USDA’s website. I believe for the state of Oklahoma, it is also on the State Department of Education – Child Nutrition Program website. We talk about the hunger and hungry kids a lot. And that like I already said that’s just because your parents have enough money does it mean that there are times that child doesn’t have food for whatever reason – moms on a diet, parents are both busy working. Whatever your financial status is if you’re a child and you’re hungry that day you’re not going to learn at the rate that you would learn if you had ifood in your stomach. And we as dietitians, we also look to the big future like how healthy are they going to be when they’re 55 and 60? But I can tell you in school. So, probably they don’t care about that. They care about how the kids are doing today in school and the fact is when kids eat more healthy food and they eat food period they do better in school, they learn better. Specifically, surprisingly in Math by providing school meals at no charge then that means that none of the students have to be embarrassed about eating school meals. And it means that all the kids no matter what their statuses at home they get to have a meal without worrying about it. They will get breakfast they will get lunch every single school day.

Mathea Ford: [00:21:06] I know something else that you guys did that was very kid focused and here in Oklahoma which we both live in Oklahoma we had a teacher strike for a couple of weeks.

Deborah Taylor: [00:21:15] Yes. Yes.

Mathea Ford: [00:21:18] My school district set up some sites where kids could go to get meals but what you guys did was amazing. So, I’d like you to talk about that.

Deborah Taylor: [00:21:29] Well. That was the teacher walk out and we acronymed it to TWO. And I was so proud of Oklahoma City school, the Transportation Department which is the best thing. Their administrators and then Child Nutrition Program worked together so well and we took food out. All of our employees were still on contract so they came in to work and they kept on making food and we took it out. Nobody came to the school building to eat. We drove it out in school buses, in the vans to all these different parks, all these different and several places that provide child care. They weren’t expecting to have kids all day long. So, we took meals to those places. Community like YMCA. I am going Brain-Dead with that many of community thing and including some churches that had children you know that kept kids.

Mathea Ford: [00:22:36] They opened up. Yeah!

Deborah Taylor: [00:22:39] And so we were able to provide lunch for them. All anybody had to do was call and say “hey! We’re over here at Highland Park area and we’re doing we’re feeding 25 kids. I mean we have 25 kids that we’re watching every day. Can you bring us 25 lunches?” And it was like “yes! We’re on it!” And we did that with them for the whole two weeks. It was really really amazing.

Mathea Ford: [00:23:09] Yeah! I mean like what if what parents had to go to work and the kids at home and yes, they can cook for themselves but you came right to their bus stops. And yeah. I’m sure it took quite a bit of just working together in community. But yeah that was I was just really impressed with that because it is really child focused.

Deborah Taylor: [00:23:34] Yes.

Mathea Ford: [00:23:35] All right! So, awesome stuff that’s been fun. There’s always an opportunity to do more stuff. But can you tell me some of the things that are special about school nutrition food that makes it healthier? Because these are some of the things that I’ve been very surprised to try.

Deborah Taylor: [00:23:54] Okay.

Mathea Ford: [00:23:54] There like cereal or milk or whatever you’d like to talk about?

Deborah Taylor: [00:23:58] Okay, so first of all, you know we had the pyramid for a long time but then it got switched to my plate which is much more user friendly for just normal folks. If you take the My Plate that USDA put out and you change it to a tray and we call it My Tray in school. Then each one the the different sections of My Plate is covered on in a school meal. So, we have the protein section, we have the grains section, all of the grains there is okay. School meals by requirement before Michelle Obama came in to place so it’s not fair to blame her for bad food. That’s not fair. Okay? Because you know that. She did emphasize school meals and some of the regulations that everyone had to begin doing were instituted faster than maybe they should have because people have to get used to changing especially in the way that they eat. So, at Shawnee like I already said at Shawnee we’re already doing most of these things already. So, our kids had no problem transitioning. My lunch ladies they cook and prepare and serve these meals. They had no problem in switching because we were already doing most of this stuff. So, in the grains now, everything has to be whole grain rich which means that at least half the grain in that product is whole grain. So, we can’t buy white Pasta, we have to buy whole pasta that’s at least half wholegrain. So, every single bread product bread type product is going to be wholegrain rich on a school meal. It may look like that we have whole wheat now right? That’s something at Shawnee, I had the brown bread since 1994 and then transitioned from Brown wheat bread to 100 percent whole wheat way back in the 90s. And and so we chose not to go use quite whole wheat because I thought it was important to let people know by looking that they were getting whole wheat and we had kids ate it without any problem. And then I found out later that they were telling their parents that’s what they wanted to buy at the store and that was like validated everything I done with school meals. Because that’s my point is that people make better choices at home and throughout their lifetime. With choices that I made for them at school. So, then we have fruit and vegetables for all these years until the changes in 2010. Then we had fruit and vegetable as a combination. Well, if you remember the Dietary Guidelines for Americans they change every five years they’re updated and school meals have to follow what the dietary guidelines are. Well, they said “they’re your vegetables” because in looking at doing studies the maturity of the biggest vegetable piece that people not just children but people in America eat is can you guess?

Mathea Ford: [00:27:21] Lettuce? Or does that even count?

Deborah Taylor: [00:27:24] Yes that does count that. Okay. It is French fries. Not potatoes but french fries specifically.

Mathea Ford: [00:27:33] I didn’t think about French Fries as vegetable so that’s why…. .

Deborah Taylor: [00:27:36] Yes. Yes. Because as dietitians we think of that as how fast that how much and how fast it makes blood sugar and the Glycemic Index that type of thing and so we automatically put potatoes in the starch. Right?

Mathea Ford: [00:27:52] Right!

Deborah Taylor: [00:27:53] In school meals, potatoes have always been a vegetable. And of course they grow like a vegetable. If you check out all their other vitamins and minerals that are in potatoes they’re definitely a vegetable. Yes, they are a vegetable.

Mathea Ford: [00:28:06] So, I agree they vegetable. Never even crossed my mind. Okay.

Deborah Taylor: [00:28:11] Yes. Yes. So French fries and of course I mean I guess you could argue that french fries do have a little some of their earlier vitamins and minerals so let’s do them. But usually when things are fried at 450 degrees it like kills most of that pretty quickly. And they’re skinny. You know so it’s it’s not like a baked potato where you’ve got this whole potatoes stuff – all flat in everything else inside of there you know. It is right. So, that’s where the They’re Your Vegetables came in. And so what they did in school meals was divide vegetables into five different categories that were required in schools to provide every week. And they audited on this on this very carefully. One is the starchy vegetables, one is the dark green vegetables and with each of these they’re on they have the things on the list when its legumes and we know that Americans need to eat way more legumes that we eat that’s the dried peas and beans. One is red orange vegetable and one is then Other – the other category. Anything that didn’t fall into the first four falls in the other. So, that’s cucumbers, then cauliflower and surprisingly cabbage and green beans because dark green there are certain things that are dark green that don’t give us the volume and advantage that they’re wanting you to get in the dark green leafy. It doesn’t but it says dark green. So, broccoli is a dark green but green beans aren’t. Okay? So, the main thing is that you can see this gets pretty complicated. So, we have whole pages of list of vegetables and we are required we can’t leave out the other. You have to provide a half a cup of other vegetable every week and you have to provide a half a cup of each of the different vegetable groups and there they have all kinds of rules and regulations that you know to try to make it so that each child has options of making sure. Like if you have a separate sandwich line. That Sandwich line has to have all five different categories every week. The kid eats off the sandwich line every day, it’s real easy to just put in baby carrots and lettuce and onions for their sandwiches but then they’re not going to get any legumes and they’re not going to get any starchy vegetable. Right? So…

Mathea Ford: [00:30:58] You got to be creative.

Deborah Taylor: [00:31:00] Yes, you have to be creative and you and is it that fun you know.?

Mathea Ford: [00:31:05] Well, I can’t think about…..

Deborah Taylor: [00:31:08] Really? Who wants a boring job. Right?

Mathea Ford: [00:31:11] Yeah! Menu planning to make your cycle menu though. So, I remember doing it in school and thinking I would hate it forever and then I went into food service. I’m like “Oh yeah! I’m going to do cycle menus for the rest of my life.”.

Deborah Taylor: [00:31:26] And thats true.

Mathea Ford: [00:31:28] So, can you talk about some specific food that maybe a little different than like what you would find on the shelf for anything that you use in school food service?

Deborah Taylor: [00:31:36] Okay so then, now then with each school meal. We have to prove the nutrients that are on each tray that we have planned. And so we have what is called CN label – Child Nutrition Label. And so when we buy when you see pizza. Kids love pizza, grown ups love pizza. When you say pizza we in schools, I can’t just make out any old pizza and put it out there just because kids love it. On my pizza, first of all the grain on it, the crust has to be whole grain rich. And then each piece has to provide two ounces of protein to the kids and then I can do some extra things like if I order pizza that has more sauce on it then I might be able to say that it’s also gotten a cup of vegetable. If it’s a Pizza Supreme has you know that has the some peppers and onions and a little bit extra sauce. One of things I would like kids to leave school doing is not giving in ranch dressing which is that subtle. Right? That dipping in to Marinara sauce and eating more because that’s tomatoes and that’s good for it. So, let’s learn. Yeah let’s step our pizza that let’s dip it in Marinara and then think about the good things that are in that Marinara sauce. The same with salsa, onions that’s the big huge change in the last 25 years I’ve done this. When you said Tex is much more Mexican food all of us eat and South of the Border. Yes. So, whatever name we want to give it.

Mathea Ford: [00:33:29] Tex-Mex. Yeah.

Deborah Taylor: [00:33:31] Yes and cause every one of them has just a little bit different flavor profile but we love it. All you know Americans just eat that. So, let’s see more salsa. Let’s eat more Pico de Gallo whether it’s fresh salsa, canned salsa. All of that is a tomato based product. And so the more of that kind of thing that we give our kids and let our kids to enjoy at school then the more they’re going to want to add that as a side to any of their other food. We went through a period where my husband bought giant things as just the two of them we buy these giant things of salsa and he would… it didn’t matter what I ate. He just you know would add a half a cup to a cup of salsa on top of it and it was like “really? Indian food?” I did not try. “But Debra I liked it.” And so what we want kids by the time they leave us to accept if they don’t like trying new things at least they accept that there are new things. So, when a parent looks at our menus you have to remember we’re like a big restaurant chain. We have toas long as we’re charging kids for meals which if you’re not doing CEP then you’re expecting parents to pay for that for their meals. Right? As long as we’re charging for meals and we have to make it where kids choose as over their other options. And so you have to prepare yet to plan menus and food that kids want to eat. And so when you just you know open up your school district’s website and use the app. Look they’re there when hamburgers again. They’re doing pizza again. Well, I mean…

Mathea Ford: [00:35:25] Check everything there.

Deborah Taylor: [00:35:26] Yes. Yes. Now that’s another yes. Kids love chicken now. And that is overtaken pizza as the number one choice now is various forms of chicken.

Mathea Ford: [00:35:38] Because of breading on Chicken Fingers is whole grain?

Deborah Taylor: [00:35:42] Breading on Chicken Fingers is whole grain rich. Absolutely! Would you believe it? Who would ever thought that you know? So. And all of the companies Tyson, Gold, Pilgrim’s Pride.

Mathea Ford: [00:35:58] Kaiser.

Deborah Taylor: [00:35:58] They cant hear it hear it is Pilgrim’s Pride. And all of them make chicken products that we buy those are all CN labeled because there again I have to prove that when a child takes five chicken nuggets that they’re getting two ounces of protein and since we now it also counters one grain because of the breading. So…

Mathea Ford: [00:36:29] And they’re baked and not fried?

Deborah Taylor: [00:36:29] And they’re baked not friend and they taste amazing. And so to one of these things says these big companies that make food for schools Conagra and Smucker’s . I probably shouldn’t have even started mentioning names because there are many many really really good companies that make them make food for us. Pierre – AdvancePierre which was in Enid, Oklahoma they made amazing beef products. Their hamburgers steak grilled hamburgers. I bought a rockin burger that have a teeny bit of onion in the mix and they taste amazing. They taste better than when you go to cook out for people or cooking it on the grill and putting it out there. The school hamburgers taste better than that. I mean it is amazing.

Mathea Ford: [00:37:29] I know when I was in the hospital, a lot of times I would ask my rep. Can you get me something off the school nutrition program stuff so that I can have lower sodium, I can have a whole and have a product that tastes good. I remember getting some cheese that way, I ended up getting but they just don’t naturally show that to health care which is very interesting and a totally different topic. But you know health care you would think that you’re working with people who have some sort of illness. Not aware of any type of you know chronic illness but maybe 50 percent of the people in the hospital have diabetes, heart disease something.

Deborah Taylor: [00:38:11] Yes, they are there for a reason.

Mathea Ford: [00:38:13] Yeah. A lower sodium foods. So, anyway… So, often I do the cereals they’re whole grain. Even like frosted flakes and fruit loops?

Deborah Taylor: [00:38:25] All of and they are lower in sugar. Now then that they had regulations for how what was the maximum amount of sugar that could be in a cereal that we served at school and now they’ve lowered it to this school year right now is the first year that that went into effect. The new regs. So, honestly since I retired at the end you know June 30th then I don’t, I haven’t seen the new ones because I haven’t been to a school. And I mean when you’re eating a good cereal you don’t know if it’s got six grams about of sugar. It’s got 12 grams of that is sugar. One thing I thought my boys when they were growing up is “Okay, look pull a box of cereal off” and back there you know we have the total carbohydrates and then sugars right?

Deborah Taylor: [00:39:26] And they had to get, they could pick any of them but they had to get it where the maximum was half sugar. Well, tons of our tins now are way lower than that. Dramatically lower. So and that tins that’s still one of the things we ask kids “what do you want? What would you like us to add to our menu that we don’t have right now?” Especially at high schools they say they want more variety of cereals and it’s like ” We have eight out there every day. How many varieties do you want?” So, it is. We always have to remember that this is kind of like a family you know at home. We’re feeding kids. What we buy and we tend to kind of make the same things over and over again in schools. Kids are eating in there for 13 years and you know if you and I met for lunch once a month then after eating at our favorite place for four months, we go “Ohh! We go to some place different.” Even though we went there once a month and these kids are going five days a week for 13 years. Right?

Mathea Ford: [00:40:39] But the truth is, kids tend to like certain foods and stick with those.

Deborah Taylor: [00:40:45] Yes.

Mathea Ford: [00:40:46] So, yeah I know because I know my son and daughter like you know we have these choices today, I always like the chicken. Whatever so. But I have two different. My family eat almost anything at school. And then my daughter have the time she makes her lunch because she’ just sure she’s not going to like the school ones. And I will not give her money to go buy from like schools’ students or whatever. Some like something out of the cafeteria or make your lunch.

Deborah Taylor: [00:41:15] They could. I would keep all the money that they want when they eat. They get a school meal, pay for that and then they could buy the things that I sold a la carte and if they wanted to eat out of the vending machines or go out we had open campus at Shawnee for my boys graduated and they wanted to leave with their friends and even off campus. Then, I didn’t want to set up a situation where they were lying to me. And so that’s fine but I’m not going to pay for that. You can work and have your own money and if you want to do that and that works out fine for my boys. Getting the freedom that other high school kids were getting and you know we never ever want to be. It doesn’t help raise people who eat more help make more healthy choices in the end which is what we’re all wanting to do food wise with our kids. We want them to be grown ups that keep on making healthy choices. If we force them to do anything with food that it backfires on us.

Mathea Ford: [00:42:21] If someone’s thinking about this is a career if they’re student or something or may be you know they are interested. What is your best tip for someone talk about this career as a career regarding what it involves or what’s your best thought about that?

Deborah Taylor: [00:42:36] Well first of all you do not have to be a Registered Dietitian/Nutritionist in order to do the job because the main thing is you have to follow the rules. So as dietitians, we understand the rules and we can tweak them and all that kind of thing. But it doesn’t matter if you understand it or not, you follow the rules and the rules are very well laid out in training from the State Department about Child Nutrition Program that’s provided for you all the way through. There’s an Institute of Family Nutrition that is based out of Mississippi. Anybody can Google those and there are all kinds of free online courses. One of the like a twelve hour course is say you want to be a director of a school nutrition program and then a major one also. Those would be things that you could go on and if you’re a student or if you’re in a career field right now or you’re taking a break from working because of children or whatever or if you’re getting tired of what you do or you know you have a move coming up and are going to have to switch that was what happened to me a lot. You know it’s the beginning of things. And so you can get a lot of individual training that was not available when I was when I started. As Registered Dietitians, we get a certain amount of food service management. That’s part of our training and it has to be there you don’t get to be an RD.

Mathea Ford: [00:44:16] Right.

Deborah Taylor: [00:44:16] Make no mistake about it this is a big food service management job. And if you won’t do that well and if you don’t care, I would say try it wouldn’t you? Try it because you may like it. It was certainly not my first choice of what I wanted to do for the rest of my life or whatever but it has it’s turned out to be something that has been extremely rewarding and I feel like I can look at my life and go “Wow! I made a difference in a lot of people’s lives.” And so it’s a food service management job that’s the first thing. And then every school district in the United States of America, they are using this Federal Child Nutrition Program. And I don’t mean a 100 percent that it’s like 99.2% or something of all the public schools choose to use the Federal Child Nutrition Program. So, every town has schools so these kind jobs are available in each town or each… Many states divides school districts up by the county which makes a lot of sense when it comes to very different than intense programs administrative kind of thing like the Child Nutrition Program. Then within one year if you choose a district that the size of Shawnee. Let’s say 10,000 or smaller students then it’s very likely you’ll be the only one there with the degree and then go train other people to do the things that they need to do. If you’re a little bit larger than that then they often act like with more they nearly always have a registered dietitian that’s planning their menus and registering the nutrition analysis. And that is that then has other responsibilities in the district also. That’s a great way to get started.

Deborah Taylor: [00:46:19] High schools have a very commonly a thousand to 4,000 students in them. Being the actual manager in that kitchen and running that kitchen for a year or two would be excellent experience. You’re not going to get paid as much. That would mean basically being a lunch lady that because there are no requirements at this stage that people managing the actual kitchens have anything more than a high school degree but you would learn so much and you would be a fantastic director if you also had that practical experience for a period of time. So, like in Oklahoma City schools we have Operations Coordinators that do have degrees and each of them has 12 to 20 schools that they are responsible for. So, that would be another place or you wouldn’t have to know all of them or you could get get to learn how school meals function and learn you know have the practical experience of managing people and training people and checking quality and checking safety and understanding the meal patterns that kind of thing. You know so that’s another area that you can get involved in. And one of the huge programs that’s out there that people don’t know about unless they’re in more of a poverty type situation a high poverty school, there is a Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Program that you apply for and these are like grants for each site. And with that Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Program is one of the only grants out there that actually provides money for real food.

Deborah Taylor: [00:48:21] We talked a lot about food as dietitians. We teach people about food but having real food there that people we expect people to go home and transfer that wonderful teaching that we do in several foods. But if you can deal with real food in the first place that’s one of the nice things we have in schools.

Mathea Ford: [00:48:48] I love it but those resources because if you’re just seem just thinking about it you can look into those resources or like you can spend a little time.

Deborah Taylor: [00:48:53] Yes.

Mathea Ford: [00:48:54] Question I like to ask my visitor in my interviews. What’s your favorite food?

Deborah Taylor: [00:49:04] Ah and I did expect that because I listened to some of your other things it’s like “Wow! What’s my favorite food.?” And my first instinct to say is Salted Caramel Chocolate Cheesecake Dark Chocolate Cheesecake. That obviously we can’t eat that all the time and so I do love food period. So I think if you were to ask me what was my favorite fruit? Right now, I think I would say mango.

Mathea Ford: [00:49:34] Ohh! I Love mango.

Deborah Taylor: [00:49:35] I know and I didn’t get to grow up with it.

Mathea Ford: [00:49:40] Awesome Deborah! Thank You so much for being on the podcast today. It was a pleasure to have you on a show. I know my listeners has just been immersed in child nutrition and school nutrition. And so, thank you for that. If the listeners want to connect with you, what’s the best way to do that?

Deborah Taylor: [00:49:55] Right now because I am just newly retired, I plan on setting up a blog at some point that my Facebook is Deborah. Spelled the long way D-E-B-O-R-A-H Stout S-T-O-U-T Taylor T-A-Y-L-O-R. And I do the nutrition stuff with my with my kids stuff that if you don’t want see kid pictures you know just be aware that’s my Facebook for everything.

Mathea Ford: [00:50:27] Okay. Well guys, this is again another great episode of the Nutrition Expert Podcast. The podcast that is all about learning more and do more with nutrition in your life.

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Nutrition Experts Podcast Episode 22 News Edition, Nutrition Counseling, Halloween Candy, CBD and Vegetarian Diets with Janet Brancato

October 1, 2018 by matheaford Leave a Comment

Janet Brancato is a Registered Dietitian Nutritionist with a Masters degree in Nutrition from New York Medical College, Valhalla, NY. She did her undergraduate studies and received a Bachelors of Science in Nutrition from Montclair State University, NJ.

She is experienced in the field of Nutrition for over 20 years, teaching groups, and counseling individuals on diet modifications and lifestyle changes to promote health. She is experienced with kids, teens, and adults. Her specialty is weight management but she also works with various medical challenges.

The past 15 years she has worked at a local hospital in NJ as an outpatient dietitian and community health speaker.

Janet decided to expand her scope of practice and created Nutopia, LLC a virtual private practice about 5 years ago. She can meet with clients using telehealth technology from the comfort of their home or office.

The motto for her business is “Simplified & Personalized” taking the information and breaking it down into manageable goals and giving clients a personal experience. She motivates and supports clients in between visits.

Janet is also a food blogger, you can check it out on her website www.mynutopia.com.

Follow her on social media:

Facebook – @Nutopia, LLC
Twitter/IG – @janetmsrd

Mathea Ford: [00:00:27] Hi there! It’s Mathea. Welcome back to the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast featuring nutrition experts who are leading the way using foods starts today right now with our next guest. It’s great to have Janet Brancato on the show today. Janet, we’re back with our news episode of the Nutrition Expert Podcast. How are you doing today?

Janet Brancato: [00:00:49] I’m doing great! It’s so great to be back with you Mathea. I am so looking forward to discussing some really great topics today.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:57] Yes! So, we found some interesting things that we thought were in the news. If you haven’t listened to a news episode yet, we are talking about things that are basically coming up in the news media or other areas that we think need a little more explanation or maybe people that didn’t pay attention to or just even give our opinions on them. So, we have a couple good topics. I wanted to start with talking about nutrition counseling vs. nutrition coaching and I don’t want to say either of them is bad but I just think it’s important to talk about the difference because as a registered dietitian/nutritionist I think it can be sometimes confusing as to what our role is in health care or even sorting with patients. So, did you have any thoughts on nutrition counseling versus nutrition nutrition coaching?

Janet Brancato: [00:01:53] Yeah. I mean like you said sometimes people you know get mixed up with that but when I think about the counseling portion especially when it comes to nutrition counseling I think about you know making a proper assessment going, seeing what’s going on medically with somebody. Counseling session, spending time talking about their diet and maybe medical needs that they have. So, there some medical nutrition therapy going on as well whereas maybe more of a health coach might be more on the preventative side of things maybe looking more at wellness. They may talk about a little bit more than just diet. They may look at the person’s total lifestyle. Nutrition counseling does too but I know a lot of health coach talk about sleep and other lifestyle practices. Maybe spiritual practices so they kind of look at that whole person. Nutrition counseling does as well but a lot of or sometimes is a little more medically oriented with maybe past medical history or you know the medications you know. So, some of those differences is usually what I like of how I distinguish it as well.

Mathea Ford: [00:03:05] In most states, we have licensure for dietitians so you have to be licensed to do medical nutrition therapy, nutrition counseling and nutrition coaching is not necessarily regulated which is almost frustrating for me as a dietitian because I’m regulated by the states and by our organization as far as ethical guidelines and standards. And I’m not complaining about that. But it also you know it’s difficult to use some of it beyond the state that you’re in or working with other people so I think sometimes we as dietitians or able to do nutrition coaching across borders if we’re wanting to do something that’s not necessarily like we’re not necessarily look at your labs writing a note for your doctor using that type of thing but using our knowledge and our basic information to help someone to make better choices. And that reminds me of like the motivational interviewing a little bit that people do sometimes but really it is about what you’re motivated to change. So, I think that’s where health coaching can help is looking at what are you willing to do. What is the next best thing for you to try to change.

Janet Brancato: [00:04:26] Yeah exactly! Yeah. And also as an RDN, we need to follow evidence based guidelines so you know we need to keep up with continuing education credits. Like you said we need to follow research that’s been done. Evidence based guidelines. We’re giving somebody the information that they need you know supporting them with knowledgeable information as well as counseling.

Mathea Ford: [00:04:53] That’s interesting. Thinking about the outcomes based and evidence based because this man I went to our Oklahoma City Dietetic Association we had a speaker come and he was talking about obesity and weight loss and stuff but something he said towards the end was very interesting because he talked about the Placebo Effect. So we all know what the placebo effect is or if you dont. It is basically used in a scientific study. A lot of times you may you’re given either a drug or you’re giving something that is inactive but it’s called a placebo and they tell you you basically don’t know if you received the drug or the placebo which have no effect but people respond sometimes to getting the placebo just because they believe they can. He presented a study about anabolic steroids and these weightlifters believed that they were being given a steroid and they are had these incremental gains that were supported you know by research to show as significant 10 percent 20 percent increase in bench press and things. And the reality was they were given a placebo. Everybody was given a placebo and so when they were told at the end of the time after they made these gains that really you were not given the drug you did this you know basically because you believed you could you push yourself harder whatever. And they found that after a period of time that those people went back to having not the same gains because they basically didn’t have that belief anymore. And so he referred to that as Noceboing. Basically, you tell him you given placebo tell them they can do it and then you tell them “Oh! I didn’t give you a placebo, you can’t. You do it all on your own and that’s like a buzz kill or whatever.” So, he was using that in reference to talking about when you talk to your patients to basically let them and help them understand and feel like what they’re doing is normal. So, yes you didn’t lose weight this week but you can’t give up because you have the ability to do this or these things work. We know this outcomes research works. Instead of giving them an excuse of saying like I’m if they say “I’m an emotional eater” you don’t give them that basically cop out to say “Okay, you’re an emotional eater you don’t have. You’re never going to lose weight whatever.” We would never say that but in a way when they say “I’m an emotional eater” we have to basically direct them back to those things that they can do that are going to help them to help them to believe that this is possible.

Janet Brancato: [00:07:44] Yes. You have to help somebody find their motivation even have to paint that picture for them where they want to be. When I work with clients I asked them you know “what is your goal? It’s not just losing weight. Okay. What is that going to mean for you? How is that going to change your life? How are you going to feel? How is that going to affect you long term?” And you know you sort of get it out of them and paint that picture with them. It really stirs something. They start to picture themselves. You break it down into steps with them and you say “Look, this is something you can do let’s break it down the steps. It’s the small goals that you can work you know and that’s why the extra support is needed when you’re coaching or counseling somebody you know you’re that extra support. You’re that cheerleader behind and you’re helping them along the way. If you just have one visit with somebody you’re going to give them a lot of information but it’s going to be hard for them to put it into action. People need that extra support and motivation. That’s what I try to instill and provide is that support and helping them to break it down into doable tests like you said that they can feel like “wow! I did this you know and I can continue to do this!”

Mathea Ford: [00:09:00] That reminds me of the way we think about our goals a little bit sometimes. Instead of thinking “I want to lose weight to think about what am I going to” So, if I think I want to lose weight and I lose five pounds then I achieved my goal. Maybe I didn’t maybe my goal was was to lose 50 pounds but I lost five pounds and I go “Oh! I met my goal!” But if my goal is to run a marathon or to exercise five days a week or to even state that number instead of saying “I want to lose weight, I want to weigh 150 pounds.” That gives you somewhere that you’re going not somewhere that you’re moving away from. So, that can be really helpful to people. We know that we have training. We go to school, we have an internship, we have testing, we work on outcomes based. Health coaches can have some training. I’ve talked to a couple in the last couple months that were functional nutrition practitioners and it seems like that’s a pretty good program that has a lot of basis in education, facts and even some RDs that I talked an RD the other day that did that has done that certifications.

Janet Brancato: [00:10:19] The thing that I also want to mention is that nutritionist is a broad term. It’s a very general broad term. So, like you said there you want to find out what the background of that person is. Okay? You want to find out about their training and their coursework. Did they just take one class or did they have a degree in it or do they have some kind of certificate of some sort from accredited you know institution? So, you want to find out you know like I said nutritionist is broad we know a registered dietitian has a criteria. Okay? So, we have all had to go through the criteria of coursework and passing a rigorous exam and keeping up with credits where a nutritionist is more broad so you need to do a little math homework to find out. “Okay. What kind of background in training?”.

Mathea Ford: [00:11:09] Okay, so next topic. I’m not even going to do a transition. I don’t even know how to do one. I want to talk a little bit about eating more plant based. This month is vegetarian month. So, how can you eat more plant based? What is eating more plant based mean?

Janet Brancato: [00:11:31] Okay. So, eating more plant based and we’re finding out more and more that the plant these foods are anti-inflammatory. So, you know inflammation can be a root cause of some chronic conditions. So, anti-inflammatory sort of counters that and can help anti-aging. It can help with weight management. It’s good for your heart. It’s high in lots of nutrients, fiber, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants and a lot of vegetables are lower calorie so you can actually more of those foods feel nice and full but you’re getting all these benefits so and it’s also really great for the environment. We’re also finding that it’s good for our gut bacteria which is good for overall health as well. So there’s really so much evidence about eating more plant based. It doesn’t mean you have total vegetarian but it’s leaning more towards plant based. Vegetables, fruits, whole grains, beans, nuts, seeds seeing where you can implement them into your regular eating pattern.

Mathea Ford: [00:12:32] I think people get confused when they think about plant based because they think it means vegetarian. But what it really means is more of your plates is from plants, from nutrients and I listened to your presentation in February or something this year and I honestly can’t remember the person although I apologize but she talked about you either eat the plants that have the nutrients or you eat the animals that ate the plants that have that nutrients. So, eating plant based more plants. You’re basically just going closer to the source because cows and pigs and other animals that we eat eat plant based. So you’re just getting the nutrients that they basically processed and built in two different muscle that we then eat. So, more plant based is just going to be having a smaller portion of meat or even just using some time to not have meat on your plate.

Janet Brancato: [00:13:31] Yeah! You could fill up three quarters of your plate with some plant foods you know. Try to get in a lot of times you could do half your plate as vegetables. It could be one main vegetable like maybe a big salad or you could do maybe some broccoli in the salad or you know you can kind of break it up with different types of vegetables you could put a whole grain on your plate which could be like a brown rice or a quinoa or something like that or some beans, maybe some fruit and then either an animal source like you said a really good quality animal source that’s had a plant diet. The grass something grass fed or something that’s lean, some kind of a lean source of protein would also be good as far as a balanced plate.

Mathea Ford: [00:14:15] How do you get more vegetarian if you’re thinking about it kind of doing a little more vegetarian? How do you work to get more vegetarian meals in your diet?

Janet Brancato: [00:14:26] Well, me personally I mean I you know I tried to when even when I go food shopping I try to start at that produce section and I try to get inspired. I try to start there. Now, there’s all that color and I try to add color to my plate whether I’m having a meal or snack or say “well, how can I have some color?” You know so I try to add veggies either at every meal. Slip it into dishes that I’m making. You know sometimes we’ll have a vegetarian night where I just kind of swap out the maybe the chicken for some beans or a little tofu. You know so you could find ways of either going meatless for a night, you can do like a Meatless Monday a lot of people do that. And there’s actually a great website called meatlessmonday.com where you can find some great recipes. You could start with one day a week. Some people I know do they might do meatless per say breakfast and lunch and then they’ll have an animal source at dinner. I’ve done that or I might do one or two nights where I do meatless. So, I’m not you know I try to eat more plant based I’m not totally vegetarian. I do enjoy you know meat, chicken, fish you know. So, I don’t have a problem with eggs and dairy and all but I’m leaning more towards plant based something I do you know hope to inspire others to do you know. So, it’s so easy to do adding more veggies doesn’t all have to be fresh veggies because I know a lot of people say well they go bad easily. So, maybe some frozen you know have some frozen veggies that you could easily turn into something for dinner. Something that you could either put in the microwave or easily sautee. It doesn’t have to be very time consuming.

Mathea Ford: [00:16:08] Yeah! I’ve found that it seems to almost take just a little bit of a mindset switch. So, when I grew up meat was the center of the plate and that was how I grew up with that mentality, that thought process. And so starting to think of it as more filling, better, healthier foods but also just acknowledging that I didn’t really need the whole eight ounces or twelve ounces of steak. I really only three or four ounces of that meat and sometimes not even any meat at all but just enjoying the flavor of those vegetables and getting that variety. So, I love the idea of you know doing like a meatless meal once a week or whatever but I have really found the biggest change for me is to just say to myself “I really enjoy eating salads.” That doesn’t matter whether why I’m doing it? If I’m doing it just because I enjoy it. Does it have to be for some higher purpose but instead of thinking I have to eat meat at every meal because or somehow I’m going to be deficient. Which it’s very rare in this country. You did mention something that I do would like I would like you to talk about a lot more because there are nutrient dense foods and there are calorically dense foods. And since I know there’s a lot of people in this that are not necessarily dietitians can you talk about how nutrient dense and calorically dense. What’s the difference?

Janet Brancato: [00:17:43] It’s so nutrient dense is going to mean that you’re going to get a high amount of nutrients. So, very high in nutritional components like vitamins, minerals, fiber, other nutrients maybe those antioxidants. You’re going to get a lot for lower calorie intake. You can actually eat more of those and get more of those nutrients but naturally they’re high in nutrients. Calorically dense is meaning that the calories are a little bit richer. You know still there still could be nutrients especially if it’s like a healthy oil or fat or something like that. They’re a little more calorically dense but they still providing nutrients but you might have to eat less of those just because those calorie intake. And then you have calorically dense foods maybe more like sugary foods or sweets or things like that that are lower nutritionally but are calorically high. So, those you might have to again not do every day or watch portions of those nutrient dense foods you could eat more often, eat more higer portions of you know they tend to be less calories but they are higher in nutrient profile, those vitamins and minerals, nutrients that our body needs – essential nutrients that we need.

Mathea Ford: [00:19:01] Yeah I think sometimes people don’t realize you can eat a ton of salad for the same amount of calories as you know two or three ounces of meat or you know a doughnut or something like that.

Janet Brancato: [00:19:13] Sometimes you can’t even eat when I show people like a cup of raw veggies you know is a serving and you it’s lot to eat a cup of carrots. Let it crunch two halves and you get full you know but the calories are so low you could eat more of those you know. So you could definitely you know fill up on that versus even you know something that’s maybe more calorically dense might be like nuts. You want to eat a smaller portion but there are nutritionally there are good quality you know. So sometimes you know you have to think about that too. But yeah definitely a lot of salad and those veggies you could definitely do more of.

Mathea Ford: [00:19:50] You also mentioned that being a vegetarian is a lot more than just not eating meat. What do you see as some of the social or environmental focus that people who are vegetarian because it does seem to be more of a lifestyle choice? And when I talk to people especially dietitians who are working toward plant based diets or vegetarians. Most of the time they mentioned the social and environmental impacts that it has.

Janet Brancato: [00:20:17] It’s more environmentally friendly you know for the environment. Obviously, plants are good for our environment right? Providing oxygen and feeding our you know feeding for the environment in general. It’s so important. And then even just the processing it takes a lot to process animal sources of food you know. So, that’s sort of a big impact on our environment just caring for you know and handling you know meat production and that type of thing of where it is you know plants you know are really good for the environment. You know so we need more you know why those plant based foods. Like I said just you know in terms of the environmental cycles.

Mathea Ford: [00:20:59] Speaking of eating more veggies, I know we talked about I think we talked a little bit about farmers’ markets last month but I wanted to talk about farmers’ markets all year round and specially kind of the summer year finding farmers’ markets near you. Because I think farmers markets are a great place to start if you’re trying to be more plant focused more plant based. If you go to a farmers market you find products that are in season and then you create the rest of your meal around that. So, if tomatoes are on season and cauliflower and broccoli are in season you go and you go to the farmer’s market you buy those and you find you know you make your meal a round that. Instead Of making it around the meat, you’re making the meal around the vegetable. So, or you know fruits as well but… So, I have a resource for people if they want to find a farmer’s market near them, you can go to a localharvest.org/farmers-market so that will show farmers markets near you. But you have any tips for shopping at farmers’ markets?

Janet Brancato: [00:22:13] I love going to farmers markets. I think it’s really great for towns, for farmers. Like I said environmentally it’s great. You’re connecting with where your food sources so you get to know where your food is coming from and like you said seeking out seasonal produce in foods is really great because they’re at their peak of flavor and they’re at their peak of nutrition so they’re probably more budget friendly. You know it’s not going to take a toll on your budget as well. So, yes, so seeking out a good farmer’s market in your area they’re popping up all over. I know by me we have almost every town has one. You just want to maybe have a plan before you go. Think about maybe what you want to buy you know, how much you want to spend you know. Think a little bit about meals maybe you want to do or maybe you want to just try something new, you want to just kind of peruse through the farmer’s market first. Just kind of walk around and just sort of take in what’s there you know and what’s what looks good to you maybe even talk to the farmer or whoever is selling the products and just kind of find out a little bit about it. And you know whatever kind of strikes you mean you know try something new. That’s always good to always try to look for maybe something I can’t find in the grocery store. So you do that as well. I actually wrote a book, a blog recently about farmer’s market but more on the food safety end of things because we actually had a friend that was on vacation and became ill from something that they ate at a farmers market. Not that this is going to be a common practice but it just kind of stood out to me and I said wow I really wanted to write a little bit about maybe some tips for just kind of keep it safe. You know just making sure that you know the people that are serving you the food or if you’re buying like something Jarg you know that they’re there handling things well. Things look clean you know. There’s gloves on when they’re handling the food. So, you know just safety practices that you just want to maybe you know make sure that things will like I said clean, if anything refrigerated you know that temperature controls are there of some things being served hot or cold. Those are things to keep in mind too. Farmers’ markets are safe but you know you just want to sort of like you would any other type of restaurant or food market. Just want to make sure that things look clean are handled well. You know maybe things are covered if there’s insects around you want to make sure that things look safe as well. But farmers’ markets are wonderful. Like I said you can find so many good delicious finds, produce and other maybe some of them have bakery type items as well seasonal cheeses but you want to make sure things are pasteurized. You know that things are safe as well.

Mathea Ford: [00:25:08] Well, it’s important to note that most cities if you’re serving food do inspections. So if you don’t see some sort of food inspection sign or they usually have the rating or something you may want to be a little more cautious. But I agree with you that it’s also a great way to get to know farmers and talk to them and to say “hey if you’re trying to buy more organic” I think a great way to get maybe some more organic stuff without necessarily it’s expensive to be quote unquote certified as organic. But a lot of times if you talk to the farmer and you ask them about how they’re doing, how they’re raising their produce, how they’re you know what kind of pesticide are they using. A lot of their practices are along the lines of organic but maybe they didn’t have the money or the resources or it’s not a 100 percent organic but it’s certainly better if you’re choosing along those lines. So, I think it’s great to get the opportunity to get to know them and talk to them and find out how how do I know this is right? How do I know that avocados are right? How do I know that whatever type of thing is healthier or ready to serve and how is the best way to serve it? So I think it’s a great opportunity to talk to farmers and get to know them and a lot of times like you said they have prepared foods. They may have Jelly’s, they may have other things that they make.

Janet Brancato: [00:26:42] Yeah! And Find out about it.

Mathea Ford: [00:26:43] So, I think it’s just great when you’re thinking about eating more organic, eating more vegetarian if that’s what you want to do. We know there’s research that shows that eating more plant based is definitely healthier. So, just change your focus a little bit on that plate to being more about the side dishes so to speak. So I wanted to I on the Food Nutrition magazine this month. There was talk about Cannabis and it was a one page article written by Janice Bissex who’s going to be on my podcast and I thought it was a great article because CBD is in almost every state. And so CBD is short for I mean I’m probably mispronounces cannabinoid oil. Its something like that. That’s why what we call CBD. So, she talked about some myths and thoughts and I just wanted to talk a little bit because I think even my first impression when I saw CBD being sold. First of all, it’s being sold everywhere at like gas stations in stores and on the Internet and I happened to have a little bit of hesitance when I think there’s probably a lot of quality difference between. You don’t know necessarily that is the highest quality depending on where you’re buying it. So, I would just caution people if they’re looking for CBD to make sure they know the source because they they’ve done some testing randomly and found that you know there’s this is still a product that is not regulated or tested like a medicine because it’s considered like a supplement. So there’s no rules that if you say it’s 10 percent or 50 milligrams or whatever that that has to be there.

Janet Brancato: [00:28:40] Right! Yes. See, that’s what I had read as well that you don’t always know what the concentration is going to be and if you’re going to get what they’re saying that’s in there as far as a CBD oil so you may not get that concentration. So, knowing like you said that source because it’s not regulated you may or may not be getting all of that. So that’s that’s sort of a key thing to remember.

Mathea Ford: [00:29:04] CBD is used for a lot of different things. There’s a lot of claims people make. I don’t believe any of them have been researched. And the reason that I’m in research is because they’re part of the marijuana plant. They are not marijuana. So, CBD versus marijuana, CBD does not contain THC which is the psychoactive part but I’ve had a little bit of reading and did you know about the endo cannabinoid system? So, it’s a system that’s in our body and it’s basically like a neuro it’s a receptor in our body. And there are some in our brain and there some along our nervous system and that’s what the endocannabinoid cannabis oils or whatever connects to that cause the relief that people feel. And I was like I have never heard of this system and it’s because basically marijuana has been a drug and it’s considered a drug sold by the FDA but are not well federal government. As a lot of states approve it, I think we as dietitians have to start understanding what the effects are and what the changes can be and how it can help people because both of these medications if they’re I shouldn’t call them medication both of these products if they’re truly what they say they are do have benefits for people.

Janet Brancato: [00:30:38] Yeah! I Mean I’m not an expert in it and I’m really interested in finding out more and I want to listen to your podcast about it. But just reading a little bit about it it really does encompass. I mean if it’s does what it say it’s going with you know relieving anxiety, pain, pain management, insomnia, other saying seizure disorder, inflammatory bowel disease, muscle spasms. So, again this is what is being said as far as health benefits of CBD and even medical marijuana for chronic pain like I mentioned cancer, decreasing appetite, epilepsy. So you know we’ll have to wait and see you know sort of outcomes with that. Like you said you see I’m seeing it everywhere you know in terms of CBD because it doesn’t have the THC in it. It’s you know you can find it in oil form, there’s gummies, there’s all kinds of methods of using the CBD. But like you said it has to come from a reputable source so that really is a key component there. But it’ll be interesting to see the future of this. They are definitely you know it’s a hot topic.

Mathea Ford: [00:31:51] One of the things that I think people are confused by is a lot of times people see hemp seed oil and CBD oil and those are two different things. The hemp seed has grapes like antioxidant properties but it doesn’t necessarily have the same function of CBD. But even my first impression was that it’s dangerous or risky and CBD oil if you’re truly getting a product that is tested and produced ethically then it’s not just oil and water in a jar. Then it can be people can find some some help from it. So yeah yeah yeah I talked about it. You know that’s interesting because I think a lot of times here in Oklahoma we just became the 30th state or whatever to approve medical marijuana. And when I talk to my doctor it’s almost like there’s still a fear about it. They just don’t get educated on it. They don’t understand it.

Mathea Ford: [00:32:59] If you feel like it’s something that’s good for you. Talk to your doctor verify that it’s not going to be affecting you negatively. So I would just I guess kno medical professional, we tend to go with the outcomes based on the evidence base. In this case there’s just not the research because of the past history. What I hope in the next 10 years were like “Okay. These are all the research and the sort of things that have been shown.” You just have to make sure that it’s truly what it says. All right. So this month is October and we went from talking about CBD which can be gummies.

Janet Brancato: [00:33:36] Uhuh!

Mathea Ford: [00:33:37] Let’s talk a little bit about Halloween because Halloween is a big opportunity to just get your sugar fix. I want to talk about some ways that families and dietitians and health care professionals can help people to not necessarily go crazy on Halloween. So, you got any ideas?]

Janet Brancato: [00:33:58] First of all don’t stress about it. I mean I have a lot of clients are saying “Oh no! Halloween’s coming!” It’s only one day. Here’s a thing, maybe don’t have candy hanging around in your home. Some people buy it so early because the stores are putting it out. You know as soon as summer is over you see the Halloween candy out in the grocery stores which always makes me laugh. But people start buying and so it’s hanging around their house too long. So you know I always wait. I know personally I wait. So, right before Halloween I only try to buy a few things you don’t even have to buy all candy. You know I know a lot of people that will not provide like pencils or erasers or you know you could do non-food related giveaways. But if you want to you know have the candy maybe something that you don’t like have that in the house. That could be something that you do buy something that you’re not a fan of. So that could be something as well as I said just don’t have a lot of bags hanging around and then once the holiday is over. Get rid of it. You could donate the candy or just kind of slowly get rid of it. I used to do that with my kids just slowly empty out the bowl every day. But with your kids again you know try not to make such a big deal about them. Obviously, it’s exciting but some things that you can do to maybe control their intake might be you know making sure they eat something decent before they go out trick or treating. You don’t want them to be starving when they go trick or treating they’re going to be eating all that candy as they go so maybe try to give them a little mini meal or good snacks. And this way they’re sort of full. They’re not so hungry. And you know maybe talk to them about like you know we’re not going to eat while we’re trick or treating just you know get the candy and when you get home you know you want to check that candy make sure packages are closed and things like that so you know we want to make sure that it’s safe. So, tell them to just bring the candy home and then you can kind of sort through it with them. So that would be great as well. And then you know maybe let them select a few of their favorites to have that day. You know just like them because they’re going to want to eat their candy. You don’t want them to go crazy but you know maybe a couple of their favorites they can enjoy.

Mathea Ford: [00:36:13] Yeah! Love these ideas. In my house. Yeah, we try to pick the last very last day to get the candy and then I agree. So, sometimes I’ve taken my bags of the candy and put them in the freezer. So, it’s kind of hidden behind the vegetables. The frozen vegetables so the kids not hold for it and then they can have it some time later. But I agree with donating. A lot of times dentists sold what you donate or you know shelters whatever. Just make sure you’re checking the candy. A lot of things look like candy that aren’t candy. And make sure that the kids are brushing their teeth after eating the candy. So, they have a meal. Maybe you let them have some candy at night just make extra sure that they’re brushing their teeth instead it eating that candy kind of all throughout the day and then just not it back can cause more cavities so. But yeah you had some great tips there just trying to make sure that it’s just a little bit healthier and giving away things that are aren’t candy. And sometimes you just limit how many houses they go to. I know they want to go to tons of houses and they want to stay out for a couple of hours.

Mathea Ford: [00:37:30] But truly you if you dress up, you do all the pictures and go to houses for an hour 30 minutes or whatever. A lot of times kids are tired at that point anyway. They’re dragging. You don’t have to somehow let them have a whole pillowcase full of candy.

Janet Brancato: [00:37:50] You could set up a little time limit with them. And I think in terms of food allergy so maybe if you’re going to have candy in your home. Keep in mind that you know kids you know maybe don’t have to have nut free type of selections too. So, that would also be good. But yeah, just don’t overdo it. You know and maybe have a conversation before Halloween say “you know it’s fun, it’s enjoyable. You know let’s have a little strategy here so we’re not overdoing things” and sometimes having that little conversation with your child. You know they might be going to parties and all that so you know not just see what the plan of the day is going to be. But like you said if you give them that healthy meal before they go out and then you sort of have a conversation look “when you come back full check for your candy you could select you know two or three favorites. Enjoy it. Brush your teeth” like you said and then you know right after that I start to get rid of it in some way.

Mathea Ford: [00:38:45] Well and a lot of times you just reminded me a lot of times at schools they have Halloween parties or ball parties or whatever that kid can get candy at to say you just want to know kind of what the plan is at the school too if you have kids that go to school. Well it’s a great talk Janet. We talked about nutrition counseling, we talked about vegetarian, farmers markets, cannabis, marijuana and Halloween. This is a great talk today.

Janet Brancato: [00:39:13] Yes, a lot of fun, a lot of great topics. I really enjoyed it.

Mathea Ford: [00:39:18] Janet did I let you last time to tell us where to find you?

Janet Brancato: [00:39:21] So I think I mentioned it briefly last time. But yeah just remind everybody that my website is mynutopia.com. And I do online nutrition counseling and coaching. I have meal plans and recipes. And so you know you can find online and I also have a blog as well so I’d love to connect.

Mathea Ford: [00:39:40] All right. Thanks!

Janet Brancato: [00:39:42] Great!

Mathea Ford: [00:39:42] This great episode of the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast that is all about learning more so can do more with nutrition in your life.

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Nutrition Experts Podcast Episode 21 Cannabis For Medicinal Use with Janice Bissex, RDN

September 24, 2018 by matheaford 1 Comment

Janice Newell Bissex is a Registered Dietitian Nutritionist, cookbook author, speaker, and Holistic Cannabis Practitioner.

After her dad found relief from his pain using medical marijuana it became Janice’s mission to help others suffering from chronic pain, anxiety, insomnia, autoimmune diseases, IBD/IBS, and other debilitating conditions find relief with cannabis/CBD. She completed training at the Holistic Cannabis Academy, and now advises clients on access, proper cannabinoid ratios, dosing, best consumption methods, and cooking with cannabis at Jannabis Wellness. She partnered with a Colorado manufacturer of organically-grown medicinal grade hemp to provide phytocannabinoid-rich hemp/CBD products for her clients under her Jannabis Wellness label.

Janice spent much of her career creating recipes and educating families about healthy cooking and eating at Meal Makeover Moms and Janice Cooks. A 2015 recipient of the Media Excellence Award from the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, Janice has authored five books, including Color and Eat the Alphabet: Healthy Eating from A to Z, an educational coloring book for kids of all ages.

Janice is past president of the Massachusetts Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics and past chair of the Food & Culinary Professionals practice group of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. A mom of grown daughters, Janice lives outside of Boston with her husband and miniature dachshund, Ella. She enjoys kayaking, hiking, travel, yoga, and cooking and hosting events in her recently renovated kitchen.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:26] Hey there it’s Mathea. Welcome back to the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast featuring nutrition experts who are leading the way using food starts today right now with our next guest. It’s great to have Janice Bissex on the show today. Janice welcome to Nutrition Experts. I’m excited to have you on the show and share your expertise with my tribe.

Janice Bissex: [00:00:49] Well, I’m excited to be on your show as well. Thanks for inviting me over Mathea.

Mathea Ford: [00:00:53] Well, I just love this topic because it’s something that dietitians I think don’t know a whole lot about. And honestly even here in Oklahoma we just approved medical marijuana. We’re going to talk about cannabis today and even just talking to my doctor like “How are you thinking about implementing this type stuff?” There is a little bit of fear still a little bit. So…

Janice Bissex: [00:01:18] Absolutely!

Mathea Ford: [00:01:20] I would love you just to start with telling my listeners a little bit more about you and what you do.

Mathea Ford: [00:01:24] Okay. Well, let’s see. I’ve been a Registered Dietitian/Nutritionist for a few decades and I’ve done everything from cardiac rehab to selling nutrition software, working at a luxury hotel. And then I co-founded Meal Makeover Moms with a nutrition colleague for almost 15 years. We wrote five books and we taught busy families how to eat a healthy diet. And that was all great. I enjoyed that and being the sort of family nutrition experts. And that was good. And then a couple of years ago my dad was sick he suffered multiple spinal fractures and he was in a lot of pain. And he was put on the traditional pain meds and they had terrible side effects. They made him a zombie. He became excruciatingly constipated that required hospitalization. So, finally I said to his doctor “you know isn’t there anything else that we can do for him to help manage his pain?” And I said “What about medical marijuana?” Now, Mathea, I honestly knew nothing about medical marijuana or cannabis in general. It just never really crossed my radar. I tried once in college because I felt like I should do that before I leave. But that was it. That was my… That was my biggest you know experience with cannabis. So, the doctor looked at me and he said I think that’s a great idea. And I thought “oh boy! Well, now I need to learn about it.” So, I started to learn about it. I took my dad to get certified to a doctor, he got a vape pen with medical marijuana and we came home. He was in a lot of pain and he took two puffs and he said “wow!” And I said “Are you okay?” And he said “I’m not in pain.” And right then I said this is it. I am completely changing my career focus. I am going to go back to school to learn about cannabis and find out why does it work. I had no idea why it worked. And that’s what I decided to do. And I basically haven’t looked back since.

Mathea Ford: [00:03:39] Wow! That’s an excellent story to see in that personal moment to say it worked that quick.

Janice Bissex: [00:03:47] And it was just so surprising to me because I wasn’t… I wasn’t in tune to that and didn’t want to say I was angry but I thought here’s something you can help people without all those terrible side effects from opioids and other pain meds and we don’t know about it. Why are we not being told about this? Well, the first obvious answer is that on the federal level cannabis is illegal. So, that’s the reason that we are really told about it. And yet 30 states Oklahoma. Welcome aboard 30th state to legalize medical marijuana. 30 states. It is legal so… But doctors don’t know about it. They really don’t. They weren’t trained. You and I weren’t trained in this. I mean I didn’t know anything about cannabis. So, it’s really the last decade or two that the medical benefits have become more widely known. Now it’s been used medicinally for 10000 years. You know back in Chinese medicine it was used in India. It’s been used throughout time. But then it became sort of demonized in the early nineteen hundreds and there was a big “oh just say no! It’s bad for you it’s the evil weed. It’s going to ruin your brain” and all of that. So, it was sort of pushed aside and then over the last couple of decades it’s come back to life. So, people now they’re doing more research around the world not in the U.S. because it’s illegal. So, there’s a little bit of research being done here. But a lot of research done especially in Israel and the Netherlands places like that that have some pretty good research showing the medical benefits of cannabis. So, that is something that people are catching on to and saying “Okay, wait a minute if that’s an option why would I take these pharmaceuticals?”.

Mathea Ford: [00:05:47] Especially that you know can be addictive and cause a lot of problems. Can you tell us what it is about cannabis that causes it to work quickly and help with so many different conditions?

Janice Bissex: [00:05:59] It all starts with the Endocannabinoid System. And this was discovered in 1992. It’s a neurotransmitter system in our bodies and we actually produce at least two cannabinoids. So, when you look at the cannabis plant there are about 100 cannabinoids. They’re just compounds in the plant which every plant has different compounds that may give them health benefits. So, cannabis has about a hundred. We produce two on our own in our own bodies. Anandamide which is called the Bliss Molecule and 2-AG. So, we produce these cannabinoids and the whole goal of this Endocannabinoid System is to maintain homeostasis. So, if your body doesn’t produce enough Anandamide for example the incidence of anxiety is much higher because Anandamide can promote a feeling of wellbeing.

Janice Bissex: [00:06:58] It can potentiate your serotonin receptors. So, those happy people that you know chances are they’re producing a good amount of anandamide in their own bodies. So, what happens is if you don’t produce a lot of anandamide then you could have more anxiety and depression. So, if you introduce CBD or cannabis and we’ll talk about the difference between those in a minute. If you introduce that into your body by taking a tincture or a pill or vaping some cannabis flour then that gets your whole system working better. So, you’re helping your own system produce more anandamide and therefore you feel better. So, it’s kind of amazing. And I mentioned CBD and CBD is one of the cannabinoids in cannabis. There is THC which people more likely have heard of and that’s the cannabinoid that’s responsible for the psycho activity or the intoxication. So, you could very well get high or stoned if you have a high THC cannabis or marijuana variety. CBD does not have the intoxicating side effect. So, if you take CBD, you get a lot of the health benefits like it’s antianxiety that I spoke of, pain – decreases pain. So, those neurotransmitters that I was talking about. So, you’ve got a whole system where if you have pain in your body the signal comes down the neurotransmitter and then it goes to the next one in that sends the pain signal down to your leg or wherever you have pain. So what cannabis does or CBD does is it interrupts that signal so that that pain signal isn’t getting there. In another way that CBD decreases pain is that it’s a potent anti-inflammatory. So, inflammation is one of the causes of many of our chronic diseases it’s a contributing factor. So, if you can take something that tones down the inflammation in your body I mean we talk about an anti-inflammatory diet so we want to eat lots of vegetables and we want to you know have these foods that are anti-inflammatory. Well, CBD does that. I mean it is a plant right? We’re supposed to be eating a plant based diet so CBD from the plant and it’s a potent anti-inflammatory so that’s just another way that you see a decrease in pain using CBD or cannabis. The ratio of CBD to THC is something that everybody should look at when they’re choosing a medicine. Some people actually require a little bit of THC. There’s nothing wrong with THC. THC has medical value. It’s just that a lot of the people that I work with don’t want to be high. They don’t want to be stoned. They just want relief. They want relief from muscle spasms, from pain, from anxiety, from insomnia without the high. So, that’s why the CBD has seen a lot more popularity recently.

Mathea Ford: [00:10:26] One I know that in most states I believe CBD is legal because it does not contain THC.

Janice Bissex: [00:10:31] Yes, if you go strictly by the definition it’s legal in in almost every state. There are some states that it’s a little bit gray and then at the federal level they say that any derivatives of cannabis are illegal. I actually had someone call the DEA and say “So, what’s the deal is CBD legal or is it not legal?” And if the person at the DEA said “We are certainly not concerned people consuming CBD.” You know that’s just not at the top of our radar. Now, the FDA on the other hand is cracking down on some manufacturers because right now with CBD showing such people are really interested in it. So, a lot of people are getting on board and saying “I’m going to sell CBD” and they’re sourcing their CBD from around the world. There aren’t tight controls. They did tests and they found that more than half did not contain the CBD that the manufacturer said. So, you really have to be careful buying CBD online from someone or some business that you don’t really know is for real and anyone who wants to buy CBD. They should demand to ask for independent lab testing of the product.

Mathea Ford: [00:11:55] Can you talk a little bit more about cannabis in general and kind of how it’s available for people to use?

Janice Bissex: [00:12:00] There are a lot of different ways that you can consume cannabis. Everyone knows about the smoking. You know you can smoke a joint, a pipe, a bong. So that’s one way to get it for the most parts you know smoking a joint. Some people still like to do that but some of the toxins go into your lung and that’s not my favorite way and I don’t have any clients that prefer that method of smoking there is vaping which is better than smoking because it burns at a lower temperature a couple hundred degrees lower so you don’t get those toxic byproducts. So, if you decide to vape. When my dad first went to the dispensary they gave him a vape pen with an oil cartridge and it looks like a little pen and you breathe in and you can get it that way. But most people turn to things like tinctures. So, you can get a tincture that’s oil based or alcohol based. The alcohol based ones, I typically don’t recommend. They’re very… To put it under your tongue is it doesn’t taste good, it burns. So, what I typically work with is an oil based tincture and you just put it under your tongue for a couple of minutes, it gets absorbed in about 10 or 15 minutes and you see relief. You can also take in a gel cap, a soft gel and you say “Okay, I want 25 milligrams of CBD everyday to help me with inflammation, insomnia, pain whatever.” So, you take the pill and a lot of people like to do this just because they take it with their multivitamin or whatever medications are already taking and I advise people to take it with a fat source because that can extend the relief the effect of the CBD or the cannabis. And that’s another way to do it very easy you just put a pill.

Janice Bissex: [00:14:01] There are also topical ways of administering cannabis or CBD which I have seen amazing success and you just it’s a little balm or a suave or cream and you massage it wherever you hurt. So, if your knuckles hurt from arthritis or if your knee is painful or a shoulder or you have a muscle ache in the back. I have a young woman who is a runner and she said if “I don’t massage some CBD cream on my back I can’t run.” So it’s it’s pretty amazing so that’s another way that you can consume it and you can use a CBD cream or a cannabis cream it’s absorbed just through the epidermis so it doesn’t go into your blood. So, some people are worried about drug tests and that’s another thing CBD will not cause a positive drug test. Had that question a lot. THC is what they check for. Another way of administering CBD or cannabis is suppositories which are pretty effective for things like colon cancer. People who have severe menstrual cramps. A suppository gets the medicine really right where right where you need it and people have seen amazing results with that.

Mathea Ford: [00:15:21] So, that made me think a little bit about the Endocannabinoid System help I’m saying that right?

Janice Bissex: [00:15:27] You are. Excellent!

Mathea Ford: [00:15:29] Is it like our lymph nodes system or is it like a circulatory system or is it completely different?

Janice Bissex: [00:15:37] It’s completely different. It’s more of a neurotransmitter system. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Even though like the CBD, you’ve got these cannabinoids and we have receptors in our body in the CB1 receptors which is mostly what THC effects are in the brain which is why you get the high and the spinal cord and then the CB2 receptors which CBD can have an effect on on our immune cells in on our organs. So, that’s the difference there so when you take CBD you get more of a body not high but you get relief – body relief as opposed to THC giving you a little bit more of a head. You know it affects your head more. But you know another thing I just thought of is that people who have concussions very important CBD is a neuro protectant. In fact the U.S. government has a patent on CBD as a neuroprotectant and antioxidant. They got that patent in 2003 so they know that CVD is good for neuro protection. So anyone who has a traumatic brain injury, a concussion. My neighbor had an accident surfing in January. He was surfing and the board went way up and he thought he was clear so he took his hands off of his head and crack. He had a serious concussion so I went right over there I said you need to take this CBD and he did. He did. And so it’s important that people know that that is an option for brain injury on. In particular our veterans coming home. I mean they should absolutely be allowed to use cannabis and CBD.

Mathea Ford: [00:17:30] Yeah, that will be an interesting thing what the V.A. being a federal organization.

Janice Bissex: [00:17:35] Exactly! That is the challenge. So, really what I might hope is in the next couple of years I don’t know if it’ll be that soon that cannabis will lose its Schedule One designation. So, they in 1970, it was they put cannabis in the same category as heroin and said there’s no medical value and it has a high potential for abuse and made it a schedule one drug and it’s just it’s so not true and yet there it stays. All the researchers can’t is to the contrary and yet for some reason our lawmakers are not willing to you know take action to take it away from that Schedule 1 status which is really preventing a lot of people from getting relief if you’re in one of the 20 states that doesn’t allow medical marijuana and you know that it’s it’s illegal in your 80 years old and in terrible pain you’re not going to do that. So, I just really hope that we can make that happen.

Janice Bissex: [00:18:44] And part of that is working on the stigma because there is still a huge stigma and I’m not going to lie. Two years ago, I was kind of there. I didn’t know that about all the medical benefits and I was like you know people they just want to smoke and get high. You know it’s just so not true. I you know I was a little judgee you know about people who maybe turned to cannabis. I’m a dietitian. So, and now the more I learn the more I say I can’t believe that that we should we should be promoting this. This should be the first line defense against pain before going to the pharmaceuticals.

Mathea Ford: [00:19:23] So, what are some conditions that people use cannabis for?

Janice Bissex: [00:19:28] Pain, anxiety, insomnia. Those are three big ones. Also M.S., Inflammatory Bowel Disease, ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s. People have seen amazing results. I have a 22 year old friend here in town and he says that without cannabis, before cannabis he didn’t sleep through the night. He couldn’t go to college. He said I was in pain. I was had to be near a bathroom. It was awful. And now with cannabis because it’s an anti-spasmodic, it’s an antiinflammatory, he sleeps through the night and he’s now going to college. So, to me that right there that’s such a success story. I have some people with some clients with a Parkinson’s disease and I have this one gentleman who is just the sweetest man and he sends me a note about once every month or two and he says “Okay. Send me two more bottles of tincture” and he’ll say things like “I haven’t fallen in 43 days” which was not the case before he started taking it. It’s amazing. M.S people with M.S. It helps with with the muscle spasticity, migraines.

Mathea Ford: [00:20:50] Yeah migraines, let’s talk about migraines.

Janice Bissex: [00:20:52] Yeah! So, I’ve worked with a few people with migraines. One person who has just awful migraines almost daily. She tried just the CBD a few months ago and she said “yeah, you know I really didn’t see a lot of relief. Okay.” So, another client came and we did the CBD soft gels and this is something new that I read, the CBD suave. So, what she does is when she’s getting a migraine, she massages the topical suave right where she feels the pain whether it’s between her brows she gets it below her. Her eye sockets. So, she massages the CBD in there and then she waits a few minutes and then wherever the pain, the pain they say will then move as it doesn’t like where you’ve put that. So, it will move and then she massages it to where it moves and then one more time. And she said it can stop a migraines. Now is it gonna work for everybody? Nope. Does Cannabis work for everybody? Nope. But I’m thinking about 85 to 90 percent of people can find relief using CBD in cannabis for a lot of these conditions.

Mathea Ford: [00:22:10] Are there times you said this is not going to work for everybody but are there times in CBT or marijuana or cannabis is not appropriate for use in a person? I’m thinking pregnancy for sure probably.

Janice Bissex: [00:22:23] Right! Pregnancy and lactation even though you know there’s some evidence that CBD is not at all but I certainly wouldn’t recommend that. Not at all a problem when you’re breast feeding but for right now until more research is done I would say yes. Pregnancy and breast feeding two times. You know and you’d think that I would say not for anyone under 21 but that’s not true. That’s not true! We have so many stories of young children who had 200 seizures a day. You may have seen Sanjay Gupta the documentary called Weed. And Sanjay he was not a fan of medical cannabis or cannabis he thought this is not something that we should be using. It’s a slippery slope and then he did this documentary and he followed a little girl Charlotte Figi who was having 200 seizures a day. They gave her cannabis. And guess what? She started having a seizure week. It’s an amazing story so a lot of kids with epilepsy have been helped in different seizure disorders. I find that the most exciting research right now is with autism. I have read some pretty interesting studies and have heard some anecdotal evidence about using CBD with autism because I mean CBD is a neuro calming agent so if you can calm those you know the electric impulses in the brain and you can sort of calm that all down. They’ve seen an improvement in behaviour in children with autism. So, to me that’s very exciting and also Alzheimer’s disease. They’ve had some great results with Alzheimer’s. Some of the people when you know when you go through which I did with my aunt they go through different phases and sometimes they sort of reach out they they strike people they go through that sort of violent stage. And again the CBD and the cannabis have been shown to calm them and make them happier. You know isn’t that really what our elderly population deserves? I mean they deserve pain relief. They deserve to be to be happy in their older years so I’m just such a huge proponent of figuring out what we can do to help people as they age. To keep them you know keep them happy and give them relief from their pain.

Mathea Ford: [00:25:00] So you’ve mentioned some research a few times. Is there any specific research that shows about the effectiveness or where is research being done and kind of what direction is it going?

Janice Bissex: [00:25:12] I’ve got a lot of research studies on my website so people can go to JannabisWellness.com. It’s Cannabis with a J. Yeah Jannabis.com and I have a whole resources page so for each condition pain I’ve got about seven or eight resources for you know insomnia,for anxiety. So I would say people could go there. And like I said there’s not a lot of good research in this country and people keep using that as an excuse. Well, until we have you know peer reviewed you know studies we can’t recommend it. Well, we can’t do that because it’s federally illegal.

Mathea Ford: [00:25:56] Right and they can’t sponsor any studies.

Janice Bissex: [00:25:58] Right! So, if we can’t do the studies because it’s illegal and yet we have research from other parts. Israel in particular they’re just so far ahead of us researching this. So, until it’s not federally illegal we’re not going to be able to do the widespread research that we want to do and doctors will still say “well, we don’t have enough research so I can’t say that you should try this” and some go so far as to say my friend brought her 85 year old mom who is in a lot of pain and said “you know we’d like to try CBD.” Doctor said “I don’t think that’s a good idea.” Now, what if my dad’s doctor had said that? I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing now that’s for sure. And you know when you’re in your 80s if your doctor says “don’t do it.” Chances are you’re not going to do it. So, I find that to be very sad. I don’t blame the doctors for not understanding it because we weren’t trained in it unless like I said you’ve gone to med school in the last few years and you went to med school that is enlightened and willing to train you and teach you about this. They don’t know about it. So, now that’s a real that’s a real struggle.

Mathea Ford: [00:27:15] You mentioned a little bit about the ratio of the CBD to THC. What are some dosing recommendations? And does it vary based on a condition. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Janice Bissex: [00:27:26] It varies based on the person it varies based on the condition it varies based on someone’s endocannabinoid system. So, you might need two milligrams of let’s say CBD to find relief from your pain. And the next person might need 20. The next person might need 40. It’s so individual more so than any other medication that I’m aware of. It all has to do with your system and your endocannabinoid system and in your receptors and how many you have and which makes it difficult for me working with people to dose them. So, we usually start I always say “start low and go slow.” So, you start with a lower dose you might start with five milligrams and this I’m talking about CBD. If you’re starting cannabis with THC I would say you would start even lower like two milligrams of THC because if you do have a reaction and in you get high that’s that’s kind of scary for a lot of people. So, that’s something you would just start low and then you just work your way up and you know when I was just saying that it occurred to me I didn’t mention edibles when I told you about different ways that you can use cannabis. Edibles which would be any food that contains cannabis. It’s actually people say “oh you know they are they’re tricky and they are tricky” especially if they contain THC because an edible can take an hour or two to take effect. So, people take a little let’s say a five milligram dose of say a little chocolate square with THC five milligrams and they’ll take it and then 30-40 minutes later they say “Thanks, I have no relief from my pain. I’m going to take another one.” You know they wait a half hour and they’re like this is really ridiculous I’ll I’ll take another one and then all of a sudden at two hours bam they are they are high, they’re paranoid. So, and those are the effects that we want to avoid because once you’ve had that experience you’re not likely to go back and try it again. And cannabis is such a powerful tool that I hate to have people have that experience. So, for sure with edibles if you’re trying an edible for the first time you have to keep the THC very low and you have to wait two hours to see if it will take effect before you would take another another bite or another dose.

Mathea Ford: [00:29:59] Is there something with regards to how is absorbed. I know you mentioned it can take like an hour but if you have a pill or a edible when you get it is it gonna say five milligrams and you can expect to absorb 5 milligrams? Because we usually don’t absorb all.

Janice Bissex: [00:30:17] Exactly! Now, that’s variable as well. How much you’re actually going to absorb and when you take an edible if you five milligrams of THC in an edible it goes through your liver for processing. So, there’s an enzyme system, the CYP 450 system and you need that to break down your cannabis. If that system is being used to break down, let’s say alcohol or another drug it can impact how much you absorb and how quickly it’s broken down. And the other thing when it’s an edible, the THC is converted to a more potent form of THC when you take it as an edible. So, that’s the other thing. It’s a lot of experimentation to see really what dose and what ratio of cannabinoids works best. A lot of people can see relief with just the CBD. Some people need some THC whether it’s for migraines or I have a client with glioblastoma and she has tumours in her brain so she needs some THC because that’s where the action is. Another thing with the CBD is that some people say well you know the pharmaceutical companies are coming out with a CBD isolate or a THC isolate but to me to a lot of people the beauty of cannabis is the whole plant.

Janice Bissex: [00:31:49] So, there are there are 500 different compounds in cannabis. There are Terpenes that are responsible for the aroma and the taste. There are flavonoids which have health benefits, antioxidants and these cannabinoids. If you take a CBD deep isolate you’re just getting one compound whereas if you take a whole plant formula you’re getting all these others and they work synergistically. So, it would be like you know Mathea, you wouldn’t say to somebody you know broccoli is so good for you and winter squash they’re so good for you but here I’m going to give you a vitamin A capsule and that will be just as good. No! That’s not just as good you need all the other nutrients in the broccoli and they work they do work synergistically.

Mathea Ford: [00:32:39] I know we talked a little bit about practitioners kind of getting some questions. How do practitioners handle questions about cannabis? I mean I know we have probably our own personal beliefs but how do we help patients to understand it and what it can do? Where should people go to find more information?

Janice Bissex: [00:33:00] Good question. Because I think that we bring our own ideas into our counselling practice and if we have a stigma against cannabis, people will A) either not talk to you about it which that’s not good you want them to feel free to talk to you about these things and if you don’t know any… You can’t… I can’t expect my all my fellow dietitians to know what I know about cannabis. I did training. I mean I went through the Holistic Cannabis Academy which is an online training 35 modules with all the top experts in the field. So, I devoted you know almost a year to learning about this so I could do what I do. So, I would only expect dietitians to know that there are medical benefits. Here are some of the conditions that can help if you have someone with Crohn’s or ulcerative colitis or IBS or any of these conditions that I’ve talked about at least putting it out there and say you know we can learn about this. I can refer you to somebody who knows about this that can help you figure out what might help you.

Mathea Ford: [00:34:09] So can you talk a little bit about your training and why you felt the need to get certified versus just learning about it?

Janice Bissex: [00:34:17] Yeah! I mean I could have gone online and watched videos but I really felt that if I were going to do what I’m doing and counselling clients and speaking giving talks I’m doing grand rounds at my local hospital and a couple of weeks and I’m speaking at the annual meeting of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics in Washington D.C. in October. So, if I’m going to be “the expert” I really felt that I needed to be certified. And luckily at about the same time I was thinking about this to dietitians. Donna Shields and Laura Lagano they started this Holistic Cannabis Academy and they did all the work for pulling all the best speakers and developed a training program where I could learn what I needed to learn without going online. Because as we know a lot of the stuff online may or may not be 100 percent accurate. This way I know this is a good training program I’m going to learn when I need so that then I can that I can help others but I have to say I am still learning everyday. Everyday I’m learning more and more and I get more and more excited. I’ve never been this excited about anything I’ve done in my career. I just find this so fascinating.

Mathea Ford: [00:35:37] You’re right you can find information on who knows who wrote it or whatever but they’ve kind of got a filtered and educate process.

Janice Bissex: [00:35:46] And I’m happy to talk to anyone who has questions about the program. And I actually have a discount code for dietitians if they want to do the training.

Mathea Ford: [00:35:56] One question I always ask people is what’s your favorite food?

Janice Bissex: [00:36:01] I just had it actually. Avocado is probably my favorite. I just mashed that avocado on an English muffin and put a fried egg on top with a little bit of cheese. And that was that was my lunch. I also like dark chocolate. I like really good parmesan cheese. I know that that’s not one food but you know I have to say I could say my favorite food is CBD. That’s what I should’ve said.

Mathea Ford: [00:36:27] Nice.

Janice Bissex: [00:36:28] Yeah, I take I do take it every morning though I take it. I have my own line. Jannabis Wellness CBD Products and I have tinctures, soft gels and sauve and every morning I take a 10 milligram soft gel my breakfast and my multivitamin and some yeah that’s my favorite food. The heck with those avocados. I like my CBD soft gels.

Mathea Ford: [00:36:53] Well, I have taken CBD in the past and the biggest thing that I noticed in addition to some pain relief was focus and it’s kind of a weird thing. But it was like all the sudden I could stay at a task and complete the task without having the feeling, the urge to go do you know either other things on Facebook or whatever is that anecdotal to just me or is that?

Mathea Ford: [00:37:20] No, no, no I’ve heard that before. And also the anti anxiety benefit I have a lot of clients who have gone off their antianxiety and antidepressants taking CBD. Now, I don’t I definitely don’t recommend that people just stop cold turkey and switch to CBD. There’s a way that you want to do that and you need to you know work with your doctor and health care professional but you can absolutely taper off and substitute with CBD.

Mathea Ford: [00:37:52] Well great! Janice thank you so much for being on the podcast today. It was a pleasure to have you on the show.

Janice Bissex: [00:37:59] It was great great chatting with humor. Keep up with all your wonderful work and getting the word out there about what dietitians are doing.

Mathea Ford: [00:38:09] Well I know about our listeners today I’ve learned a lot about cannabis and probably have never even thought about half the things we talked about so hopefully it stirs some in the brain and if the listeners want to connect with you what’s the best way to do that.

Janice Bissex: [00:38:23] Best way just reach out via my website JannabisWellness.com. I love to hear from people. And yeah absolutely reach out.

Mathea Ford: [00:38:33] Well guys that’s been another great episode of the Nutrition Experts Podcast. The podcast that is all about learning more so you can do more with nutrition in your life.

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